DBZ feats! For those unaware.DBZ
Posted 02 July 2012 - 01:13 PM
Posted 02 July 2012 - 01:39 PM
Well so far everything still falls under Einstein's rule or law of relatively. That the cosmic speed limit is up to light speed. Everything else is theoretical and just theories
Only worm holes allow faster than light and so far we cannot prove it
I think, to be technical, nothing in a vacuum moves faster than light. I'm pretty sure they just discovered a molecule that travels faster than light in a vacuum though, so Einstein's rule might be dunzos.
Posted 02 July 2012 - 02:54 PM
Posted 02 July 2012 - 04:27 PM
To show that they use their telepathy to fight via astral plane
Posted 02 July 2012 - 04:31 PM
When Goku gets to Namek he reads Krillin's mind. He didn't even know if he could or not, he tried it and it worked.
Posted 02 July 2012 - 09:30 PM
Posted 02 July 2012 - 11:19 PM
I wouldn't say they can learn anything. We only know what they can learn by what is evident in the series. EDIT: Although Kid Buu learned instant transmission just by watching Goku do it. He could possibly be an exception due to his magical origins.
Yeah on my time off I did some searching for this for this topic, yeah the part you say is what I mean about them doing anything by trying and training for it. Goku did it w/o anyone teaching him which will show if he was being mind wiped he could potentially learn to resist or defend vs it based on how powerful someone is, maybe?
As far as resisting telepathic assaults, I think they could. In Marvel and DC it seems if you have a strong will power, you can resist such attacks. Goku is too pure and too focused to be mind f*cked. Vegeta's pride would probably fend off most attacks.
Someone like Darkseid could mind f*ck them hard though. Martian Manhunter is a very powerful telepath, and he could only keep Joker sane for a few moments. So, it seems as long as you are strong minded, you can resist mind attacks.
Posted 02 July 2012 - 11:36 PM
Basically, you just look at the effects. Is the telepath doing something that has to stay in place for a long time(mind control, illusions, rearranging memories, etc.), then it can be resisted by will power. Is the telepath doing an attack that simply has a 'here and now' effect(mind blast, telepathic spike, etc.) then no amount of will power will protect you.
Posted 03 July 2012 - 12:51 AM
Sirmethos you are right in the sense that Prof X an others can use telepathy on a wider range inducing many different kinds of attacks but if mind control is out, they have a great shot at taking hits from mind wipes or even basic mind reading. Good example is Hulk, no matter what Prof X does he can't see his mind or even begin to do damage. Hulk has no telepathic defense what so ever and then you have Goku that called Vegeta out for letting someone do it to him, that and the fact that Goku can and has learned techniques that others can't making this plausible. I mean if Magneto can resist it why not someone much more powerful in mind.
Posted 03 July 2012 - 01:59 AM
"Just saying that based on what is shown if Goku learned telepathy on a whim he could learn to counter just as easily."
Not quite, there is quite a difference between reading someone's mind(something that pretty much even the weakest telepath with active powers can do), and creating active telepathic shields, especially powerful ones(something that takes skill and training, even for the most powerful telepaths).
Also, even if Goku could learn to create Telepathic shields, by the time in a match, that someone has mind blasted him, or taken him down with a telepathic spike, it would be too late.
To give you an analogy, the 'slower' more subtle telepathic attacks(mind control, illusions, mind alteration, etc.), is like throwing a net over someone's mind. If they have a strong enough will, they can break out of the net. The 'instant', more direct telepathic attacks(mind blast, telepathic spike, etc.), are like firing a bullet from a gun. Once it hits, it's too late to do anything about it. And you can't 'resist' it, either you block it, or it hits you.
"Good example is Hulk, no matter what Prof X does he can't see his mind or even begin to do damage."
That's not entirely correct. In the comics, they have, IIRC, never tried something like a mind blast/telepathic spike/etc. to just plain shut Hulk's brain down, or instantly mind wipe him. What they generally try is entering his mind, to telepathically calm his rage, or put telepathic 'shields' around the Hulk persona, so that Banner keeps his mind and the Hulk persona doesn't get out. And all of those fail, for several reasons. 1. Rage, Hulk's will power is extremely strong, and due to his rage, he instantly fights any telepathic intrusion with everything he's got. And considering Hulk's general level of rage when they try things like that, that's quite a lot. 2. Multiple personalities. Unlike a 'sane' mind, Hulk/Banner actually has several personalities inside his mind, and a telepath that tries one of the more subtle methods(which is what they, for some reason, always try with Hulk), then they have to fight not just one mind, but several minds at the same time.
Jean Grey(at the fight with Onslaught) showed that it is very much possible to enter, and affect, Hulk's mind when he is calm.
"Hulk has no telepathic defense what so ever"
Not quite true. Multiple Personalities is just as effective, if not more so, than telepathic shields, when dealing with the more 'subtle' methods of Telepathic attacks. And as I mentioned above, they've never actually(IIRC) tried the more 'direct' telepathic attacks. Primarily because of Banner.
"I mean if Magneto can resist it why not someone much more powerful in mind."
Two things with this
1. Magneto probably has one of the strongest, non-telepath, minds on earth.
2. Magneto's powers helps him shield his mind. Even without his helmet, he has extremely powerful mental shields.
Posted 03 July 2012 - 08:35 AM
In Onslaught, Jean entered Hulk's mind but she was allowed by Hulk, not if Hulk resisted, and no mind wipe and other forms of telepathy will not work on him, the whole multiple personality for hulk is correct but not for that being the reason that he has defenses for telepathy
Posted 03 July 2012 - 12:22 PM
2. Goku's rage being just as powerful as Hulk's? Possible, but I highly doubt it.
3. We don't know if the more direct forms of telepathy would work on Hulk, since no one has ever actually tried.
and 4. Yes, having multiple personalities is a large part of why the more subtle forms of telepathic intrusion doesn't work on Hulk.
Posted 03 July 2012 - 05:43 PM
Watch that and tell me why people say Brolly is "weaker" than Cell or "Super" Seventeen. Cell boasted about being able to blow away the sun(and didn't do it) Broly destroyed the south galaxy and didn't think anything of it.
Posted 03 July 2012 - 06:10 PM
Posted 03 July 2012 - 07:50 PM
Posted 03 July 2012 - 08:19 PM
Since the movies aren't part of the regualr series plots, I think that Buu beating stronger fighters means that the movie versions of Goku and friends are stronger than the regular series, the movie just interpreted their power levels a different way or that the writers didn't have a good grasp on the concept of consistency. Regardless, it is not until Buu that we even have a non-movie character confirmed to destory a star. Buu destroyed a galaxies but did so off panel. For all we knew he spent a billion years destroying each star one at a time while he warred with the Kais.
And in Brolly's second appearance, which would be between Cell and Buu, he's able to overpower Goku and his two son's combined special attack at the same time until Trunks steps in, I'd say at the very least he's much stronger than Cell. Even if Gohan, who beat Cell by himself, had been "slacking off" Goku spent all those years training.
Maybe Brolly should be considered "weak" to later Dragon Ball characters, but his first on screen feat taken on its own puts him slightly below the likes of Marvel's Odin. If one simply read the Dragon Ball comic without ever watching the movies one probably wouldn't get the impression Goku ever had that kind of power, at least not until the Buu series, if you're really generous.
Vegito maybe, he powered through Super Buu's attack that was tearing at the seems of reality, I could buy him duplicating the feats in the films, but not Goku. Hatchyack is Brolly's equal, Janemba would be stronger than Broly by definition, and so would Gogeta but they're also movie only characters. In future Z discussions there should be a disclaimer to leave out movie feats unless using movie characters because I feel like Toei really let themselves go when making them and further that, just because a movie character beat weaker versions of the Z cast shouldn't mean they should be considered weak when fighting characters from other franchises on the CBUB(Brolly's record kind of speaks for itself).
Watching GT, I got the impression these guys were weaker than Cell, up until Nova Shenron was stated to have power that burned hotter than the sun. That was litterally the first time Super Saiyan Four Goku looked strong, when fighting him and then Goku's crippled by a little ice, less than he had to deal with at the start of the series when we were on Android Number eight. In that case it seems like Toei went too far in the opposite direction.
Since this thread seems to be doing feats in order, you missed Arale and Android #8's feats of strength by the way. The former head butted General Blue(the same Blue Tao killed) from China to Egypt and the latter knocked General white over the horizon.
Posted 04 July 2012 - 02:34 PM
That is incorrect. He was over powering them, he only lost because Trunks interfered. He was tanking three planet busting attacks like it was nothing.
Broly couldn't overpower Goku, Gohan, and Goten.
Posted 04 July 2012 - 02:42 PM
Posted 04 July 2012 - 02:55 PM
Nah, the blast had a huge impact on the outcome. Attacks like the Kamehameha stream from the users' hands. Broly's attacks leave his hand, so when the one hit Trunks' blast, none of his other attacks were hitting the Kamehameha. Don't forget that it is a movie. The villains have an hour or so to make their appearance and die. Where as other villains have entire sagas. That is why movie villains die in stupid ways.
Trunk's small blast shouldn't even have bothered him. Also if Broly was as powerful as he was suppose to be he still should have overpowered them even after Trunks interfered. Broly before and after Trunks had enough time to completely destroy them.
Posted 04 July 2012 - 09:30 PM
Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: DBZ
Official Match Boards →
CBUB Unrated Rumbles →
RP Community and Fan Fiction →
The RP Board →
RP Community and Fan Fiction →
RP Planning Board →
0 user(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users