"Are you kidding me Sirmethos. I can tell you know nothing of actual fighting let alone martial arts, but thats cool."
No, I'm not kidding, and I know quite a bit about actual fighting and martial arts. Kain can vouch for that "A few things that you are wrong. Choke Hold being mind control and a punch being telepathy. Please use this basic logic as it would probably help you."
Try actually reading what I say.
Choke Hold would be the analogy for Mind Control, while a punch to the face would be the analogy for a Telepathic Spike. They're both Telepathy, they're just different applications of it. Just like a Punch and a Choke Hold are both physical attacks, just different kinds. Being able to resist/defend against one, doesn't necessarily mean that you're able to defend against the other."Prof X has telepathy which he can control minds right? He therefore has the ability to control his own mind thus creating a telepathic barrier."
Professor X has telepathy, yes. He has trained himself over several years, to be able to do all kinds of things. He has also, in the process of that training, developed telepathic shielding. At first, it was purely receptive telepathy. I.e. he was reading everyone around him's minds, without being able to stop. Thus, he initially learned how to shield himself, so that he wouldn't be overwhelmed.
Emma Frost is also a telepath, but she didn't develop mental shields until after her first encounter with another telepath. She was capable of things like Mind Reading, and minor Mental Adjustments though.
The only telepathy that the DBZ characters have shown, is purely communicative(and possibly some mind reading, but I'm not 100% sure on that one). Something that doesn't require shielding in any way. Babidi was able to use Mind Control, and they were able to resist that by pure will power.
I'm still waiting for some kind of proof that they have any kind of mental/telepathic defenses."Goku has telepathy and no one trained him to use it. He and all others can do it but arent as good as they aren't as powerful. What makes you think he cannot fight off other forms of the same technique (In DBZ everything is a technique, unless it's magic)"
As I already said, the only telepathy shown by any of the Z fighters, is purely communicative. Nothing that would require any kind of mental defenses.
What makes me think that he wouldn't be able to fight off other kinds of telepathic attacks, is quite simple. A mind blast, or a telepathic spike, or other similar offensive telepathic techniques, are not things you can "fight off". Either you defend yourself(with mental shielding). I.e. the attack never actually hits you(it hits your shields). Or you don't defend yourself. I.e. the attack either breaks through your shields, or you don't have any shields.
By your logic, Goku's standard energy shield, that is able to protect him against Energy Blasts, should also be able to protect him from the Solar Flare technique. After all, the Solar Flare is just another Ki Technique. But we both know that it doesn't work that way."So Superman beating DS is PIS is what you are saying"
No, Superman beating Darkseid is because Superman is the hero. It has nothing to do with PIS. PIS = Plot Induced Stupidity. The hero always winning in the end, is just a comic book fact. Comics Mechanics."oh and I have been in real fights, unlike you I actual do it every week, train and spar, reaction time is not real, sure you can react faster, but that always means that you are faster in general. You cannot be a slow poke and be "faster at reacting to something" its called muscle twitches and that is all related. You are taking one aspect of it and calling something different which is nonsense."
Training and sparring in a controlled environment =/= real fights. Try going to a club and getting into a fight there. Then you can claim you've been in a real fight.
And yes, reaction time is very much real. "Reaction time is the elapsed time between the presentation of a sensory stimulus and the subsequent behavioral response."
Just like Movement speed is real(moving from A to B ), and combat speed is real.
Having a faster reaction time, doesn't necessarily mean that you are faster in general. I speak from painful experience on that -.-
And from his general showings, Darkseid's reaction speed and combat speed, is fast enough to keep up with the DBZ fighters."Watch the show, when Krillin Bulma and Gohan are traveling to Namek, they fight in the astral plane."
Been a while since I've seen the show, but the manga shows absolutely nothing. And I don't remember anything about the astral plane from the show either. Though if you can actually prove it(i.e. a youtube vid)..."Mind control is not just TP< it is a part of it, and if you can will yourself to not be affected by mind control, then you can essentially defend your mind in general."
So, if you can get out of a choke hold, you can automatically defend yourself against any kind of physical attack. Yea, that's logic.[/sarcasm]"You say that Darkseid has shown to be able to react to DBZ fighters? How have they fought? oh that means you assume because some PIS shows DS punching Superman? Lame buddy I thought you were more logical than that."
I don't assume. Darkseid has shown to be able to react at speeds more than enough to react to the DBZ fighters on several occasions. Doing something repeatedly =/= PIS. PIS = Plot Induced Stupidity. If a person/character does the same over and over and over again, then it's not PIS.
Spider-Man defeating Firelord = PIS
Squirrel Girl defeating Thanos = PIS
Black Panther physically restraining Silver Surfer = PIS
Singular incidents, not something that happens over and over again."Oh and experience is not a determining factor it is a factor that gets calculated but as part of a whole system of rating."
That's true, experience alone doesn't determine the outcome. And I've never said that it did. I've merely said that it is a big factor. Which is simply a fact.
Other factors are Physical stats(strength, durability, speed, agility, reaction time, stamina, etc.), Skills, Ruthlessness, etc."OH and your Batman is more experienced than DBZ makes me wonder, you base it on how many styles he knows, which makes sense on the outside, but its not about styles as if you knew most martial arts are just tradition and not practical."
No, I base it on his years of experience, vs. the years of experience that the Z fighters have(goku, for example).
I'll break it down for you.
Goku: has about... what, 30 years of experience? if we count training/sparring. And about... 5-6 years of actual combat experience(and that's being generous) at the end of the Manga. Most of his actual fighting, happens in small spurts. The entire Dragonball(when he was a kid) takes less than a year. Then we have a 10(IIRC) year time-skip, then Raditz arrives, and there is about a year or so of on/off fighting, until his fight with Frieza. Then there's a minor time-skip again, he arrives on earth, and then another time-skip while they wait for the Androids to arrive. Then there's less than a year again with on/off fighting, until he dies when Cell blows himself up.
Batman: has about 30 years of experience as well, if we count training/sparring. And about 15-20 years of actual combat experience(guesstimating his age to about 40-45). From he arrived back in Gotham at around the age of 20-25, he has pretty much been fighting every day.
Goku's list of noteworthy defeated enemies: Vegeta(ish, it was kind of a stalemate), then Ginyu and two from the ginyu force, then Frieza. That's 5 so far(with 1 being a stalemate). That's about it. (note, my memory was off... I actually thought that Goku had personally defeated more than that).
Batman's list of noteworthy defeated enemies: Bane, Killer Croc, Hush, Joker, Lady Shiva, etc. etc. etc. too many to list.
Bottom line: Yes, Batman has far more combat experience than any of the Z fighters.
And while, yes, a lot of martial arts are more 'show' than effectiveness. There are several martial arts that are highly effective as well."I rather know a few practical ones than a bunch of useless ones (Tai Chi, TKD as examples that are really useless except a few moves from that style specifically)."
Neither Tai Chi, nor Tae Kwon Do are useless(though granted, unlike other more 'practical' martial arts, they require a certain minimum of skill before they start being effective).
I would much rather go up against someone that has spent a year or two learning/training 'practical' martial arts. Than someone that has spent 10-20 years learning/training Tae Kwon Do.
I can think of several martial arts that I would prefer over TKD, but that hardly makes it useless. The mental aspect of a martial art, is just as important as the physical moves. For example, I would rather go up against a Jeet Kune Do fighter, than an Aikido fighter. Purely because of the mental aspects. With the JKD fighter, I would just get my arse kicked, I would hurt, and I would get over it. With the Aikido fighter, I wouldn't get hurt, I would get humiliated -.- And while I'm not particularly touchy about my pride, that's just taking it to the ridiculous.
Ideally, I would mix a handful or so, of different Martial Arts.
If you take a guy, and spend 10 years teaching him one style. Then once those 10 years are done, I can, with knowledge of which style you've been teaching him, teach a random guy from the street, enough to take him down, in a matter of 2, maybe 3 weeks. Simply by countering that specific style.
If you take that same guy, and teach him 2 different styles. Then it would take me a lot
longer to train a random guy to take him down."Goku is that guy that learns as he fights, he picks up fighting a lot faster than anyone in his universe and I bet if he was human he would be more powerful than Karate Kid is still,"
Goku is from the DBZ universe, of course he would be more powerful than Karate Kid. Karate Kid is far more skilled though, take away Goku's superior power, and put them on an even footing, so that the fight is determined by pure skill and experience, and Goku wouldn't stand a chance."People like you claim since I cannot name a specific style Goku has learned that therefore he doesnt know any or not as good of a fighter, but you all can agree that the crane style or hermit turtle style is a conglomerate of unnamed styles (DBZ is not our earth and should not be compared to our styles we know)"
It has nothing to do with not being able to name a specific style. But everything to do with the fact that Goku never recieved any technical hand-to-hand training. All the training he has recieved, has been focused on learning various Ki techniques, and increasing his Power Level.
The 'Hermit Turtle style', is not a hand-to-hand combat style, it's more of a mind-set, and a few Ki Techniques(like how Flying or rather Levitation, was originally a Crane style technique)."Lastly Janemba's sword is magic, which usually breaks the laws of physics and given that it's an aspect of his own energy is just as powerful as he can be. Darkseid would lose as even if he can react as fast as you say he cannot move out of the way since he is (you said) much slower anyway."
What does that have to do with anything? There is only one thing that can kill Darkseid(radion). Magic is not it.