37 replies to this topic

[RakaiThwei]

With the upcoming summer film, Prometheus, being released June 1st for the U.K. and June 8th for the U.S., I have actually been reading up on reviews from fans who have seen the film in France, Switzerland and Belgium. I won't give out any spoilers to what the plot of the film is or what happens in the film, but what I can say is that the film pretty much re-affirms and gives more solid grounding to theory of the relationship between the Space Jockey (now called Engineers) and of course the Xenomorph. Now the theories are no longer theories but now fact, it confirms what everyone has suspected about the relationship of these two races.

We do know that the Engineers have created the Xenomorphs, and we do know that the Xenomorphs have always been a bio-weapon but have somewhere along the way, turned on their masters as a result of genetic assimilation and experiments having gone horribly wrong. We do know that the Engineers are perhaps one of the oldest extraterrestrial races within the Alien vs Predator universe, and that they have been tampering with bio-genetics for over a millenia.

The Xenomorphs have been around for around that length of time as well, but we do know that they did not start out as how we know them to be now. The trailers and the television spots do show that these biomechanical creatures do have some sort of rapid evolutionary change. We have long suspected that the Xenomorphs must've come from some sort of prototype-- a Protomorph, if you will. And in the numerous trailers and television spots, we do see a mural of what appears to be a Protomorph of sorts, suggesting that the Engineers have been long aware of the Xenomorphs for sometime. And from numerous theories mentioned in the Expanded Universe, as well as fan-theories made in discussions, we do know that the Xenomorphs have eradicated or nearly eradicated the Engineer race long ago.

So, taking the Alien vs Predator films into account-- as Prometheus doesn't seem to contradict the AvP films, we do know that the final product Xenomorphs have been around perhaps longer than 10,000 BC. So this begs a few questions...

Have the Protomorphs and Xenomorphs co-existed at some point in time?

Was the evolution of the Xenomorph really a series of isolated events that wound up achieving the final form of the bio-weapon as we know it now?

Let's discuss this...

-Rakai'Thwei

[Ruinus]

So, for us who don't know the AvP universe, the protomorph is a random creature that the Engineers found and bio-engineered into the xenomorphs?

[RakaiThwei]

So, for us who don't know the AvP universe, the protomorph is a random creature that the Engineers found and bio-engineered into the xenomorphs?

If you want to put it that way... Yes.

As for it being some other creature that was found, well I would venture onto say that it's not. Rather, the original bio-weapon was a primordial black ooze which infects other life forms to create an organism which gestates inside of another host. This is supposedily how the Xenomorphs, or rather the Xenomorph ancestor race-- the Protomorphs had begun from.

-Rakai'Thwei

[AVP vs The Terminator]

I just scanned the Wiki article.

Spoiler

Is this "serpent-like creature" the crew are attacked by related to the Xenomorphs, or is it an unrelated bio-weapon created by the Engineers? Was the Xenomorph race accidentally created when Holloway, who'd been contaminated by some black substance, impregnated Shaw, or had they been created beforehand by the Engineers? It's clear that the thing Shaw "birthed" was a facehugger, though it sounds bigger than the usual ones from the description the article gave.

[corvette1710]

Black ooze of infectious doom? Sounds Lovecrafty.

[RakaiThwei]

I just scanned the Wiki article.

Forget Wikipedia, that site is never reliable.

Spoiler

Is this "serpent-like creature" the crew are attacked by related to the Xenomorphs, or is it an unrelated bio-weapon created by the Engineers? Was the Xenomorph race accidentally created when Holloway, who'd been contaminated by some black substance, impregnated Shaw, or had they been created beforehand by the Engineers? It's clear that the thing Shaw "birthed" was a facehugger, though it sounds bigger than the usual ones from the description the article gave.

This response will be kept under spoilers as to note spoil anything for people who want to see this movie.

The serpent like creature is called the Hammerpede. I am a little confused to know how this thing is related to the Xenomorphs or even the Protomorphs for that matter. What I do know is that it is a parasite that entered into one of the crewmember's suits and forced itself into his mouth. What happens, is a little unclear for me.

Spoiler

As for the Protomorphs/Xenomorphs being created accidentally, I wouldn't say that either species was the result of an accidental creation. Like I made mention, the Engineers have been aware of the Protomorphs/Xenomorphs for quite sometime. According to a fan's review, he did make mention that there were a few Engineer corpses that appeared to have had their chest exploded. Perhaps a Protohugger was formed by one of the infected Engineers, and the Protohugger had infected another Engineer and thus birthed the Protomorph.And we know that several Protomorph birthings happened some 2000 years ago and that the Engineers have been aware of these creatures long before the incident on the starship Prometheus.

Also, it should be worth noting that Humans are actually descendents of the Engineers... as they created us as well, and in their image for the most part.

-Rakai'Thwei

[Ruinus]

I read the wiki article too, and while you say it's unreliable it's about the only information I have. Based on that, it looks like:

Spoiler

The black ooze is the bio-weapon. It's purpose (from what I gather of the plot synopsis) seems to be to infect a host and generate a creature inside said host. This is why Holloway and Fifield are infected with it, Holloway starts to get sick while Fifield is turned into some wierd mutant thing.

Now, since I have no knowledge of the AvP universe beyond the movies I've seen, I'm going to make a theory and just run with it ok?

Ok, so the Ooze is meant to be the first method of attack, because the idea of throwing eggs on a planet to start a bio-weapons attack is ridiculous. So the Engineers would disperse this ooze into the atmosphere of a planet via missiles or whatever (like modern day weaponry), the ooze would blanket large parts of the target area and infect the targets with it. These infected people would then either turn into xenomoprhs via DNA re-writing (which was happening to Fifield before he was killed?) and/or impregnate others with their re-written xenomorph sperm. THIS then causes xenomorphs that we all know to be born and take over the operation. By the time xenomorphs have to run around and catch people and facehug them, the enemy planet has been under viral attack-hence the Engineers don't have to waste missiles anymore, the xenos reproduce on their own at this point.

This also means that the Engineers at least tried building some sort of safe-guard into their weapon- since the ability for Xenos to infect people via ooze or ooze-spray would be incredibly risky, they'd be completely dependant on facehugging at this point. This could also serve as a MUCH better way that the xenos destroyed the Engineers. Their hyper-advanced empire wasn't brought down by enemies that rely on meelee, but by other Engineers who used ooze-missiles on Engineer worlds and killed them all off that way.

RakaiThwei what say you?

[RakaiThwei]

I read the wiki article too, and while you say it's unreliable it's about the only information I have.

I only say that Wikipedia is unreliable is because sometimes there is a written biase in whatever subject matter there is. Most colleges, if not all, fail their students who rely on Wikipedia solely for information. Also, most of the AvP Universe material on Wikipedia seems to be edited and likely written by none other than IMDB's LittleJimmy835... whom I have a great disfavor for omitting citing information and I wouldn't rely on Xenopedia since their articles are absoloute nonsense since they have articles on fan-characters, as well as disinformation on canon.

However... THAT aside...

Spoiler

The black ooze is the bio-weapon. It's purpose (from what I gather of the plot synopsis) seems to be to infect a host and generate a creature inside said host. This is why Holloway and Fifield are infected with it, Holloway starts to get sick while Fifield is turned into some wierd mutant thing.

Now, since I have no knowledge of the AvP universe beyond the movies I've seen, I'm going to make a theory and just run with it ok?

Ok, so the Ooze is meant to be the first method of attack, because the idea of throwing eggs on a planet to start a bio-weapons attack is ridiculous. So the Engineers would disperse this ooze into the atmosphere of a planet via missiles or whatever (like modern day weaponry), the ooze would blanket large parts of the target area and infect the targets with it. These infected people would then either turn into xenomoprhs via DNA re-writing (which was happening to Fifield before he was killed?) and/or impregnate others with their re-written xenomorph sperm. THIS then causes xenomorphs that we all know to be born and take over the operation. By the time xenomorphs have to run around and catch people and facehug them, the enemy planet has been under viral attack-hence the Engineers don't have to waste missiles anymore, the xenos reproduce on their own at this point.

This also means that the Engineers at least tried building some sort of safe-guard into their weapon- since the ability for Xenos to infect people via ooze or ooze-spray would be incredibly risky, they'd be completely dependant on facehugging at this point. This could also serve as a MUCH better way that the xenos destroyed the Engineers. Their hyper-advanced empire wasn't brought down by enemies that rely on meelee, but by other Engineers who used ooze-missiles on Engineer worlds and killed them all off that way.

RakaiThwei what say you?

That theory sounds very interesting and it is very likely possible for it to have happened. After all, why couldn't it?

However, upon reading several reviews and the wikipedia article, despite my stance on Wikipedia....

Spoiler

What we do know is that there were temples which had murals depicting the Xenomorphs, and inside of these temples were rooms which had contained numerous urns which contained this primordial black ooze. However, on AvPGalaxy, someone had pointed out that there was a thrown bowl in the room where the Engineer murals were discovered, leading to believe that one of the Engineers had perhaps drank some of the black ooze and ushered in the birth of what could be a Protomorph, or Xenomorph. Upon reading the Wikipedia article, it's revealed that Janek suggested that the planet LV-223 might be a military base where the Engineers had been conducting an experiment, and that the engineers didn't live there and that they did something that turned to be a disaster for them. This gives some weight to the idea that either sabotage by a renegade Engineer had occured... or accidental infection had happened.

There have been a lot of fan theories that there perhaps could've been two sides of the Engineers... One side which had created us, and another which has developed bio-weapons and want to destroy us. We do know that one Engineer remained on Earth during the Cambrian period... and literally turned into the first DNA. But in the events of Prometheus... the Engineers want to destroy us. Why create us to destroy us?

Had there been a civil war between Engineers, then there would've been numerous cases of the black ooze evolving into what we know as Xenomorphs. After all, why can't there be a series of isolated events? Were there more military bases/temples where these creations had went out of control and similar events happened? Why couldn't there be? After all, the EU has mentioned theories that there might be more than one world where these temples were found. And in some cases, more HAVE been found-- case in point, Alien vs Predator 2 for the PC made mention that the Engineers had come to LV-1201 and possibly brought the Xenomorphs with them when a Jockey ship was found.

Spoiler

As for Fifield turning into a Xenomorph, well... it's hard to say that if he was infact turning into one. However the idea of a human turning into a Xenomorph is nothing really new as we've already seen something similar in the directors cut of ALIEN, where Dallas was caccooned and Brett was being turned into an egg. And in a rough draft of Alien 3, a new method of reproduction where caccooning took place and the victim was turned into an Alien, however this was ultimately never filmed. But the Wikipedia article says that Fifields mutilated corpse somehow is revived and attacks the hangar bay.... that is really confusing to me. After all, unless this ooze somehow revives cellular activity and "resurrects" it's hosts... then I don't see how a corpse can get up and kill people. Maybe he was mutating into something else.. some form of Protomorph even.

Also, something worth of interest to look at..

-Rakai'Thwei

[Ruinus]

Ok, more theory abound. I'm not sure if I require spoilers since it's a theory and not based in anything, but I'll err on the side of caution.

Again, I've only seen the movies, so if I say things that are already contradicted/supported...

Spoiler

One side which had created us, and another which has developed bio-weapons and want to destroy us. We do know that one Engineer remained on Earth during the Cambrian period... and literally turned into the first DNA. But in the events of Prometheus... the Engineers want to destroy us. Why create us to destroy us?

This may just be my distaste for the sci-fi cliche of the Planet of Hats, but it could be that there are several distinct Engineer nations. It's implied (or outright stated?) that the Engineers built mankind. So maybe one group made mankind and wanted to let us develop normally, one wanted to use us as another weapon, one group opposed the messing of intelligent creatures, etc etc. So conflicting information on the Engineers could be chalked up to that. After all, consider the following:

Question: Why did one group of humans build an amazing empire called Rome only for another group of humans to try to topple them again and again?

Answer: Because not all the humans had the same idea.

It's an easy answer that solves any perceive conflicting information in my mind.

Had there been a civil war between Engineers, then there would've been numerous cases of the black ooze evolving into what we know as Xenomorphs

I'm assuming that in the books or comics there are. In fact this might change my theory abit. Maybe the ooze was a "recent" development in their xeno-bioweapon programme. If several prior books make mention of people finding xeno-egg caches in temples and such, then maybe the Engineers were building an easier to disperse method of the xenos-the ooze.

Like this:
Engineers build xeno-bioweapon.
Engineers use it on planets for whatever reason (to destroy the biosphere, to attack enemy civilizations, etc).
The program works alright, the Engineers and their xeno weapons are fine for thousands of years.
Someone gets the bright idea to disperse the xeno-weapon via ooze, allowing for missiles, faster transmission rates, etc.
Either a war breaks out between the Engineers or some sort of calamity happens, spreads this oooze about and kills all the Engineers. This explains the lack of any mention of this oooze stuff anywhere else-it was a "relatively" new invention before their society went kaputs.

I think it'd be cool if the ooze is what causes a civil war between the Engineers. Picture it, the Engineers are fine on using the xeno-bioweapon on the lesser alien civilizations around them, but whenever they have disagreements with each other they have to resort to conventional weaponry (guns, lasers, whatever), because, as creators of the xenos, they know how to make viruses or biological weapons that'd kill xenos right quick. It'd be stupid to use xenos against Engineers, because when one Engineer nation deploys xenos on the other, the defenders have already cooked up an anti-xeno virus or what have you.

So then some nation decides to develop this ooze programme. It gets around this by blanketing all the Engineers in a target nation/city/world, meaning that there's no possible way to virus the xenos, as they'd be unleashing a virus that would now be lethal to themselves too. The ooze is their WMD scare, they'd be making a dangerous weapon that could actually be used amongst themselves. Commence the infighting.

But the Wikipedia article says that Fifields mutilated corpse somehow is revived and attacks the hangar bay.... that is really confusing to me.

Actually, the wiki article says:
Back in the temple, Fifield and Milburn are attacked by a snake-like alien. Milburn is killed and Fifield falls into a pool of the dark substance from the ampules.

So later on when they refer to "Fifield's mutated corpse" it seems to me that the writer of the article is assuming Fifield died when he fell in the ooze.

Fifield was turning into a xeno faster than Holloway because he received a greater dosage of the ooze than Holloway did.

[RakaiThwei]

Ok, more theory abound. I'm not sure if I require spoilers since it's a theory and not based in anything, but I'll err on the side of caution.

Again, I've only seen the movies, so if I say things that are already contradicted/supported...

Which is why we are discussing and perhaps offering theories based on what the films and the expanded universe have shown us. So far, you're sharing theories which have been more or less, discussed on fan websites but perhaps more elaborately.

This may just be my distaste for the sci-fi cliche of the Planet of Hats, but it could be that there are several distinct Engineer nations. It's implied (or outright stated?) that the Engineers built mankind. So maybe one group made mankind and wanted to let us develop normally, one wanted to use us as another weapon, one group opposed the messing of intelligent creatures, etc etc. So conflicting information on the Engineers could be chalked up to that. After all, consider the following:

Question: Why did one group of humans build an amazing empire called Rome only for another group of humans to try to topple them again and again?

Answer: Because not all the humans had the same idea.

It's an easy answer that solves any perceive conflicting information in my mind.



I'm assuming that in the books or comics there are. In fact this might change my theory abit. Maybe the ooze was a "recent" development in their xeno-bioweapon programme. If several prior books make mention of people finding xeno-egg caches in temples and such, then maybe the Engineers were building an easier to disperse method of the xenos-the ooze.

Like this:
Engineers build xeno-bioweapon.
Engineers use it on planets for whatever reason (to destroy the biosphere, to attack enemy civilizations, etc).
The program works alright, the Engineers and their xeno weapons are fine for thousands of years.
Someone gets the bright idea to disperse the xeno-weapon via ooze, allowing for missiles, faster transmission rates, etc.
Either a war breaks out between the Engineers or some sort of calamity happens, spreads this oooze about and kills all the Engineers. This explains the lack of any mention of this oooze stuff anywhere else-it was a "relatively" new invention before their society went kaputs.

I think it'd be cool if the ooze is what causes a civil war between the Engineers. Picture it, the Engineers are fine on using the xeno-bioweapon on the lesser alien civilizations around them, but whenever they have disagreements with each other they have to resort to conventional weaponry (guns, lasers, whatever), because, as creators of the xenos, they know how to make viruses or biological weapons that'd kill xenos right quick. It'd be stupid to use xenos against Engineers, because when one Engineer nation deploys xenos on the other, the defenders have already cooked up an anti-xeno virus or what have you.

So then some nation decides to develop this ooze programme. It gets around this by blanketing all the Engineers in a target nation/city/world, meaning that there's no possible way to virus the xenos, as they'd be unleashing a virus that would now be lethal to themselves too. The ooze is their WMD scare, they'd be making a dangerous weapon that could actually be used amongst themselves. Commence the infighting.

I do agree that there could've been several Engineer factions. This is something which has been theorized heavily since their debut in the Expanded Universe in the Alien-Predator mythos. Their prominent depictions in the expanded universe was of course in the comic and novel adaptation of Aliens: Earth Hive, Aliens: Female War, and Aliens: Nightmare Asylum. However it should be noted that these novels originally depicted the characters of Ellen Ripley, Newt and Corporal Dwayne Hicks fighting a massive Xenomorph infestation on Earth, then eventually coming to the Alien homeworld and encountering an Engineer and ultimately fighting against a cult of Xenomorph fanatics as well as a sinister General who wanted to use the Xenomorphs as a bio-weapon--- HOWEVER these characters have been retconned as Synth-Ripley, Billie, and Corporal Wilkes. Their placing in canon is quite ambiguous and with Alien 3 retconning the original written stories, these probably should not be counted as canon.

However, the Engineers do make an appearance in a Dark Horse Present ALIENS short, and Aliens: The Destroying Angels-- where a Facehugger had latched onto an Engineer (then refered to as a Giant) and out bursted a Jockey-Xenomorph which... apparently, from words of the fans who saw Prometheus, bares no resemblence to the Protomorph but this could be a case of the final product Xenomorph infecting an Engineer.

We do know that the Engineers seem to revere and perhaps even fear the Xenomorphs, and for good reason too.

I found a theory which somewhat mirrors your own in many aspects and it's something which I can agree on. Mind you this site is a roleplaying site but it has material which has been for the most part told and implied in the expanded universe, and is more or less abbriviated in the author's words.

http://www.serenadawn.com/Alien-TheCollectedEssays.htm

The next link is very interesting. You will want to read the top introduction, then scroll all the way down until you see "The Mutation/Prototype."

http://www.serenadawn.com/Alien-Plug-In-JockeyRace.htm

Picture it, the Engineers are fine on using the xeno-bioweapon on the lesser alien civilizations around them, but whenever they have disagreements with each other they have to resort to conventional weaponry (guns, lasers, whatever), because, as creators of the xenos, they know how to make viruses or biological weapons that'd kill xenos right quick.

This is something that had caught my attention and it's something we can both agree on. We know that the Engineers and the Xenomorphs have come into contact with numerous races, however what those races are-- is unknown but two of them are infact known. Humans-- whom the Engineers had created in their very image, as we are their creations. We are perhaps their descendents, if we also take into account the Ancient Astronaut and Annunaki theories developed by Zachariah Sitchin and further expanded upon by Daniken (AvP, anyone?). And the other race?

The Yautja.

We know for a fact that the Engineers have come in contact with the Yautja. As a matter of fact, in AvP-R, in the beginning seen we do see an Engineer helmet (then at the time idenitified as a skull, this was due to lack of foresight). It is the fourth trophy on the upper far right.



This confirms that the Yautja and the Engineers have been aware of each other's existence. However had the Engineers encountered a significantly lesser and tribal race as the Yautja, then either... they haven't been able to wipe them out, or... their numbers were too few to destroy the Yautja as perhaps the Xenomorphs dwindled the Engineer race to a handful.

However, note that this skull was more or less seen circa 2004... and the Xenomorphs which existed at the time appeared to be final product Xenomorphs. We know that the Yautja had come down to Earth sometime around.. 10,000 BC or earlier, and were using humans to harvest Xenomorphs for the hunt. My question is now, if these were final product Xenomorphs... how did they get a Queen, let alone eggs if Protomorphs at the time were a main problem for the Engineers?

Spoiler

Actually, the wiki article says:
Back in the temple, Fifield and Milburn are attacked by a snake-like alien. Milburn is killed and Fifield falls into a pool of the dark substance from the ampules.

So later on when they refer to "Fifield's mutated corpse" it seems to me that the writer of the article is assuming Fifield died when he fell in the ooze.

Fifield was turning into a xeno faster than Holloway because he received a greater dosage of the ooze than Holloway did.

This is indeed true... I'll have to see Prometheus to get a better judgement on that but it is likely that the writer assumed Fifield had died and was somehow resurrected. But I like your suggested idea better than the Wiki article's vague description.

-Rakai'Thwei

[Ruinus]

Spoiler

Maybe the movie Prometheus doesn't even show a protomorph? I mean, neither of us has seen the movie, but perhaps the prototype xenomorph is long long gone as a research project thousands of years ago? I mean, if the xenos are weaponry (and it seems like they are) they are either based off of a creature that is long dead and gone (or would have no relation at all to the xenos anymore) or they are built up from scratch.

The Yautja getting xeno queens could be easily explained via the xenomorphs themselves. It could be that all the xenomorph variations (or at least the major ones-drone, warrior, queen) are built in by the Engineers as control systems. The Engineers could somehow control queens (via some means) and get them to "stand down" when they'd arrived after seeding an enemy planet with xenos. So Engineers would walk about xenos without fear of them being destroyed by their own weaponry. Or something.

[RakaiThwei]

Spoiler

Maybe the movie Prometheus doesn't even show a protomorph? I mean, neither of us has seen the movie, but perhaps the prototype xenomorph is long long gone as a research project thousands of years ago? I mean, if the xenos are weaponry (and it seems like they are) they are either based off of a creature that is long dead and gone (or would have no relation at all to the xenos anymore) or they are built up from scratch.

Spoiler

I have read reviews over at AvPGalaxy, especially the review written by AvPGalaxy's Administrator Aaron Percival aka Corporal Hicks. He does make mention that the Jockeys have been long since aware of the Xenomorphs, but that this was an insanely long road to their creation, which only adds even more questions. He does confirm that we do see a Protomorph, only in it's birthing stage and not full grown.

A lot of people said that the Protomorph birthing stage is reminiscent of the Alien 3 "Bambi-Burster" and that the design is very reminiscent of Steve Johnson's concept art of the Xenomorph for Alien vs Predator. Someone had made an edit based on the visual of the Protomorph using Johnson's concept AvP Xenomorph art... this is the closest we can get to seeing the Protomorph until we see it in theatres.

The Yautja getting xeno queens could be easily explained via the xenomorphs themselves. It could be that all the xenomorph variations (or at least the major ones-drone, warrior, queen) are built in by the Engineers as control systems. The Engineers could somehow control queens (via some means) and get them to "stand down" when they'd arrived after seeding an enemy planet with xenos. So Engineers would walk about xenos without fear of them being destroyed by their own weaponry. Or something.

That is something worth to consider, however I have a problem with the idea of the Engineers being able to control the Xenomorphs. I can see them maybe keeping them in check as far as dwindling the populations of Xenomorphs goes but then again, these Protomorphs/Xenomorphs are said to be responsible for killing a bulk of the Engineer race.

One theory could be that the Yautja have somehow acquired a Protomorph Queen, and when humans were used as hosts for the unhatched eggs, they bred this new and perhaps... final product Xenomorph sometime around 10,000 BC. Every one hundred years, these new Xenomorphs would be bred and used for Unblooded Yautja to hunt them. However, these new Xenomorphs had been exterminated during the Gunnison incident, and very few isolated incidents have occured within the 21st to 23rd centuries where the Xenomorphs, at least the final product Xenomorphs, have been encountered.

Also, something worth noting that the Engineer ship seen in Prometheus, is not the same one we see in ALIEN, according to Ridley Scott. It's the same design, but not the same ship.

-Rakai'Thwei

[Ruinus]

Ok hold on, I want to get something straight before we continue, because I'm starting to lose it here.

Ok, could you please explain this protomorph and it's relation to a xeno? Preferably in the simplest manner you can?

[RakaiThwei]

Ok, could you please explain this protomorph and it's relation to a xeno? Preferably in the simplest manner you can?

The term Protomorph is simply a play on two words-- Prototype and Xenomorph.

According to what many Alien fans are saying, that this is the link between Prometheus and ALIEN. The idea of the Protomorph is that this is a creature that has essentially gathered enough genetic material from various hosts to the point where it has evolved into what is the precursor of the Xenomorph. And it's descendents would eventually evolve into what we know as the Xenomorph.

Does this clear things up?

-Rakai'Thwei

[KevinDWolf93]

Ooh, Im not as well versed in the Alien-verse as some of the other guys, but I do remember something and that lead me to the under page at the mention of seemingly not override any AvP canon. Going by the official timeline there's no Charles Bishop Weyland or the events of AvP mentioned.

http://www.weylandin...es.com/timeline

Now I did some digging, and from what I read while some think The character of Peter Weyland 'took over' Weyland after Charles Bishop Weyland and made it Weyland Corp, but by looking at the dates given by both they seem rather inconsistent, the year of 2004 on the two timelines specifically seemingly make it incompatible(at the very least odd there is not a single mention). Given that apparently Ridley Scott isnt quite fond of AvP it might seem likely he didn't intend connections as far as he was concerned.
Your opinion on that?

[Ruinus]

The term Protomorph is simply a play on two words-- Prototype and Xenomorph.

According to what many Alien fans are saying, that this is the link between Prometheus and ALIEN. The idea of the Protomorph is that this is a creature that has essentially gathered enough genetic material from various hosts to the point where it has evolved into what is the precursor of the Xenomorph. And it's descendents would eventually evolve into what we know as the Xenomorph.

Does this clear things up?

-Rakai'Thwei

But how could that be possible, if previous films (namely AvP) establish that Xenos have existed prior to this movie?

Maybe:

Spoiler

The "protomorph" we see in the shots of the film is in fact Fifields mutated?

[RakaiThwei]

Ooh, Im not as well versed in the Alien-verse as some of the other guys, but I do remember something and that lead me to the under page. Going by the official timeline there's no Charles Bishop Weyland or the events of AvP mentioned.

A lot of people have pointed that out, really.

However, despite the fact that it really doesn't mention the events of the first Alien vs Predator film, it doesn't go completely out of it's way to retcon it. This was a topic which has been heavily discussed with fans over at AvPGalaxy. Also, there is a date of October 1st, 2004-- namely Peter Weyland's Birthday, which is ironically nine days before the events of Alien vs Predator. Again, there is nothing to contradict the events of the first Alien vs Predator as far as I am aware. Yes, Charles was killed sometime in October 10th, 2004 and Peter Weyland turned only fourteen just nine days before the incident.

As far as inheriting the company goes, yes, there is something unusual about a fourteen year old inherited a multi-million dollar conglomerate. After all, wouldn't one have to be eighteen years old to at least inherit such a vast fortune? Perhaps. I am not sure on how inheritence works here. I am not a financial consultant, nor am I someone who knows anything about insurance and inheritence.

But what do we know about these characters?

Well, for one they are named Weyland. This would suggest that they are more than likely family but what their relation is all speculation. Given Charles' age, I would assume that he was a man who was in his late sixties to early seventies. Peter would only be two years younger than I have around the time of the events of the first Alien vs Predator. So more than likely, it could be speculated that Charles could be his grandfather and a middle man, perhaps Peter's father had taken over until Peter was old enough to take over... and in 2012.... Peter would only be.... 22 years of age, legal enough to have inherited Charles' legacy and then take over.

Of course, that is all speculation...

Now I did some digging, and from what I read while some think The character of Peter Weyland 'took over' Weyland after Charles Bishop Weyland and made it Weyland Corp, but by looking at the dates given by both they seem rather inconsistent, the year of 2004 on the two timelines specifically seemingly make it incompatible(at the very least odd there is not a single mention).

I was doing some digging as well. However too often do the viral videos refer to Weyland Corp as "Weyland Industries" and it's also not uncommon for companies to have subsidiaries as well. For example, look at the Disney Corporation-- they have many subsidiaries such as Buena Vista, Touchstone Pictures, Marvel Entertainment, Hyperion Publishing, etc, etc... Perhaps Weyland Corp was a sibsidiary of Weyland Industries but when Peter took over with the conglomarate, he had either decided to renamed Weyland-Industries to Weyland Corp, or... formed Weyland Corp as a legal entity within Weyland Industries.

Again, I am not someone who specializes on economic functions such as insurances, legal documents and settlements, as well as inheritance. So I could be wrong but I am trying to do my best to explain how these could probably fit.

As for Charles Bishop Weyland not being mentioned, well it could be because that the Weyland Industries company had wanted to keep the controversy about Charles Bishop Weyland's death something hush-hush. Charles was dying of lung cancer and when he disappeared, they probably covered that up with some PR press talk about his death rather than his actual disappearance. After all, the company could've lied... and according to Peter Weyland's biography and the timeline you've provided for me... well... the company lied about his death and built a memorial when we all know he's been in hyper sleep and didn't awaken until 2084.

The company lies. And it wouldn't be unreasonable for it to cover secrets.

Given that apparently Ridley Scott isnt quite fond of AvP it might seem likely he didn't intend connections as far as he was concerned.
Your opinion on that?

Ridley Scott doesn't hate the AvP franchise or the movies, if that's what you're suggesting. If anything, he has expressed that the films could've been perhaps better and that Twentieth Century Fox has rung the Alien rather dry. Scott is much more tasteful than outright stating "I HATED AvP." And if you ask me, while he thought the films could've been better, he only said that one blurp to humor some Comic-con fan.

What's interesting to know is that while Ridley Scott didn't write the film, John Spaights wrote the script as Shadow 19, Alien Harvest, and Paradise. But it was Damon Lindelof who had revised one of those scripts, and as far as I am aware, he took a look at canon and probably also accounted AvP but tried to keep that down played and he has mentioned that while he has tried his best to not contradict canon, there are some contradictions none the less because this is meant to be a new story... perhaps this is one of those contradictions.

But how could that be possible, if previous films (namely AvP) establish that Xenos have existed prior to this movie?

Maybe:

Spoiler

The "protomorph" we see in the shots of the film is in fact Fifields mutated?

Which is why we are discussing this... Perhaps the term Protomorph, or Proto-Alien is something which the fans have wrongly labled. I don't know. But from what the fan reviews are saying is that it is a new kind of Xenomorph, and from the murals we have seen in the pictures I have provided, seem to suggest that the Xenomorph has been around a lot longer than we have thought.

Again, Lindelof has said he has tried his best to not contradict canon, there are some contradictions none the less because this is meant to be a new story... perhaps this is one of those contradictions.

-Rakai'Thwei

[Ruinus]

While this discussions is pretty dandy, I doubt we'll get anywhere with this protomorph concept until one of us actually sees the movie. I know I'm going to go watch it with my little brother, seeing as how we love the Alien movies...

[RakaiThwei]

While this discussions is pretty dandy, I doubt we'll get anywhere with this protomorph concept until one of us actually sees the movie. I know I'm going to go watch it with my little brother, seeing as how we love the Alien movies...

I concur...

Now if we only didn't have to wait seven more days.... Damn UK for getting the movie first.

-Rakai'Thwei

[RakaiThwei]

Resurrecting this topic....

Now I know how and where the final Product Xenomorph and the Protomorph fit in... And this is word from Ridley Scott.

Scott: For all intents and purposes this is very loosely a prequel, very, and then you say “But how did that ship evolve into the first Alien?” Then I would say “Actually he’s one of the group that had gone off and his cargo had gotten out of control,” because he was heading somewhere else and it got out of control and actually he had died in the process and that would be the story there. That ship happened to be a brother to the ship that you see that comes out of the ground at the end. They are roughly of the same period give or take a couple hundred years, right?

Source: http://screenrant.co...k-176223/all/1/

In other words, the final product Xenomoph more than likely has been just one of many bio-weapons, namely more than likely it was the result of an Engineer being infected by the Black Slime and having birthed what could've perhaps been a Protomorph, which likely laid the eggs that we happen to see in the Derelict on LV-426, suggesting that the Facehugger eggs more than likely may thousands of years old, and those facehuggers that are already thousands of years old, kept in stasis were the first generation of what could be the final product Xenomorph.

The Protomorph which we see at the end of Prometheus, more than likely was an isolated event of similar events that happened some few thousands of years ago, but it just happened much later on.

-Rakai'Thwei