18 replies to this topic

[batmanKing989]

Savage was walking down the road when suddenly rhino charged into a car that flipped over causing people to run in panic. Savage tackled rhino but rhino hoisted him off his back and threw savage into a movie rental store. Rhino snorted and threw a truck that crashed into savage. Rhino turned to finish the city off when suddenly the truck rammed into rhino. Rhino turned angrily seeing the savage dragon charge and punch rhino left and right. Rhino stumbled back a little and laughed as he punched savage into a tree.

Savage: you may be tough but i've seen tougher bring it on!

Rhino: your no spiderman but your gonna be too easy

[Callisto]

Learn More About
Rhino
Read more about Rhino at Wikipedia
Official Site: Marvel Comics Links: Wikipedia Entry Spiderfan Entry Marvel Database Entry

Savage Dragon
Read more about Savage Dragon at Wikipedia
Official Site: Erik Larsen Links: Wikipedia T.V.com IMDb

[Ivan]

Savage Dragon creator Erik Larsen is a douchebag of the highest order. He described Dragon- typical mindless Image fare complete with bait-and-switch storytelling and "kewl" artwork- as "more Mature than Marvel, less pretensious than Vertigo." Go away, Erik Larsen. You haven't ever written a noteworthy comic, and your major hateboner for Neil Gaiman is predicated entirely on the fact that your buddy Todd spent two decades trying to screw him over. Larsen's unpublished screed that was supposed to accompany his Nova comic throws everyone from Marv Wolfman to Tom DeFalco under the bus. The guy, like every Image creator, is a huge tool without the talent to back it up. (John Byrne and Peter David are tools too, but the difference is those guys created some epic comics.)

Tangled Web's "Flowers for Rhino" arc was a far better story than anything that has ever appeared on the pages of Savage Dragon in the two decades it's been published. Argue powers all you like, but voting for Savage Dragon is morally reprehensible.

[batmanKing989]

Savage Dragon creator Erik Larsen is a douchebag of the highest order. He described Dragon- typical mindless Image fare complete with bait-and-switch storytelling and "kewl" artwork- as "more Mature than Marvel, less pretensious than Vertigo." Go away, Erik Larsen. You haven't ever written a noteworthy comic, and your major hateboner for Neil Gaiman is predicated entirely on the fact that your buddy Todd spent two decades trying to screw him over. Larsen's unpublished screed that was supposed to accompany his Nova comic throws everyone from Marv Wolfman to Tom DeFalco under the bus. The guy, like every Image creator, is a huge tool without the talent to back it up. (John Byrne and Peter David are tools too, but the difference is those guys created some epic comics.)

Tangled Web's "Flowers for Rhino" arc was a far better story than anything that has ever appeared on the pages of Savage Dragon in the two decades it's been published. Argue powers all you like, but voting for Savage Dragon is morally reprehensible.

it wasn't about the comic arcs (although if it was you would be defintly right) it IS about powers and which is stronger although your right about one thing rhino wins end of story savage is tough but not tough enough for rhino

[Ivan]

It's never about powers. Powers don't matter. Ever. I would vote for Tom Strong in a match against The Sentry, because Sentry is a joke of a character, and Tom Strong is flipping awesome. I don't care who is stronger. Don't. Care. Hehe.

[batmanKing989]

It's never about powers. Powers don't matter. Ever. I would vote for Tom Strong in a match against The Sentry, because Sentry is a joke of a character, and Tom Strong is flipping awesome. I don't care who is stronger. Don't. Care. Hehe.

ok it's your choice but i'm voting for rhino because of 3 reasons-

1. better comics

2. better powers

3. he rules

[Boratz]

I believe there could be more of a story in there and more of a reason behind the fight itself. I will give you a C but I really want to see more story. As for who comes out on top, well it will be Rhino. No questions asked. He is a beast and a freakin' machine and Savage may have strength but nothing compared to Rhino.

[bigballerju]

Gone have to give you a D here. A very short setup that made no sense as to why they were interacting other then Savage happened to be walking down the street and Rhino came charging out of nowhere. Thats even forgetting the fact both are from different worlds.is

Rhino wins as currently he is more powerful then before and way smarter then he was. Savage won't pull those stupid tricks Spiderman does as Rhino is too smart for that which includes the fact Savage doesn't have the strength to put him down nor take that type of punishment Rhino will be giving. Plus Rhino as it is strength wise is definitely on a Hulk level.

[.Big Game James.]

a healing factor that goes as far as regrowing lost limbs and organs. oh and dragons character is way more interesting and more B*A* than rhinos by farrrr..

dragon wins anyway you look at it.

[bigballerju]

You must not know Rhino at all to say its a stomp for Dragon. Dragon is not even remotely capable of taking down Rhino. When Savage is capable of battling Hulk and more then you can say he has a chance against Rhino.

[.Big Game James.]

how can rhino compete with a healing factor like that? unless somehow rhino manages to dismember the head of dragon. just don't see that happening though.

[.Big Game James.]

Savage Dragon creator Erik Larsen is a douchebag of the highest order. He described Dragon- typical mindless Image fare complete with bait-and-switch storytelling and "kewl" artwork- as "more Mature than Marvel, less pretensious than Vertigo." Go away, Erik Larsen. You haven't ever written a noteworthy comic, and your major hateboner for Neil Gaiman is predicated entirely on the fact that your buddy Todd spent two decades trying to screw him over. Larsen's unpublished screed that was supposed to accompany his Nova comic throws everyone from Marv Wolfman to Tom DeFalco under the bus. The guy, like every Image creator, is a huge tool without the talent to back it up. (John Byrne and Peter David are tools too, but the difference is those guys created some epic comics.)

Tangled Web's "Flowers for Rhino" arc was a far better story than anything that has ever appeared on the pages of Savage Dragon in the two decades it's been published. Argue powers all you like, but voting for Savage Dragon is morally reprehensible.

so spawn was a failure in your mind?

[bigballerju]

Dragon's healing factor allowing him to regrow organs or limbs does not mean he can't be killed or KO with enough power or punishment. Rhyno is way more then capable of beating Dragon senseless.

[Redemption X]

Savage Dragon creator Erik Larsen is a douchebag of the highest order. He described Dragon- typical mindless Image fare complete with bait-and-switch storytelling and "kewl" artwork- as "more Mature than Marvel, less pretensious than Vertigo." Go away, Erik Larsen. You haven't ever written a noteworthy comic, and your major hateboner for Neil Gaiman is predicated entirely on the fact that your buddy Todd spent two decades trying to screw him over. Larsen's unpublished screed that was supposed to accompany his Nova comic throws everyone from Marv Wolfman to Tom DeFalco under the bus. The guy, like every Image creator, is a huge tool without the talent to back it up. (John Byrne and Peter David are tools too, but the difference is those guys created some epic comics.)

Tangled Web's "Flowers for Rhino" arc was a far better story than anything that has ever appeared on the pages of Savage Dragon in the two decades it's been published. Argue powers all you like, but voting for Savage Dragon is morally reprehensible.

As someone who has used Battle Girl for over two years and considers her to be one of the best superheroines ever...I can't help but being hurt by those words.

You know that I feel the same way about Rob Liefeld? And Michael Bay? And American wrestling (WWE and TNA)? And most modern action movies in general? And most modern videogames (ESPECIALLY the excrecable "Grand Theft Auto" series)? And every single part of the Predator Expanded Universe (novels, comics, videogames)?

But I don't say it, because I know a lot of people here like it.

Same thing here: Erik Larsen is one of my favorite comic book writers/artists, and "Savage Dragon" is one of my favorite comics, so please watch it. I don't want to pull out the personal attacks, but I will if you keep this up.

By the way: I'm pretty sure you hate Larsen because his work is cheerful, optimistic and full of hope, heroic characters and positive messages, while you fap all over those comics/games/movies full of hopelessness, murderous unheroic psychopaths, negative messages and violence used for the sake of violence. Well, I'd much rather stick with the comic that gives me hope and joy, one where heroes are heroic and villains are villanous.

Also, you called John Byrne and Peter David (two really good and talented writers who also happened to be my favorites, John Byrne's "Doom Patrol" and Peter David's "The Incredible Hulk" are also two of favorite comic books ever) "tools". Not cool.

[AVP vs The Terminator]

Or, maybe he hates him because he's a shit writer - which he is. Go ahead and insult him for not agreeing with you, it'll just make you seem like more of a petty moron than you already are.

And I'm convinced you haven't seen or read half the things you listed as disliking. Funny how that works, huh?

[Redemption X]

It's called a difference of opinions. Just because YOU think he's a shit writer, doesn't mean that everybody else does. It's the same with, for example, Rob Liefeld: just because I think he's a shit writer/artist doesn't mean that everyone else will think so.

You can't hold an OPINION as if it's absolute truth. Taste is subjective. This is something you should have learned a long time ago. The real "petty morons" are the ones who think different and act like their opinion is gospel.

There's a difference between fact and opinion. "Snow is made of water" is a fact. "Erik Larsen is a shit writer" is an opinion. I don't see how I'm a "petty moron" for realizing the difference between the two.

[Ivan]

Erik Larsen is one of my favorite comic book writers/artists, and "Savage Dragon" is one of my favorite comics, so please watch it. I don't want to pull out the personal attacks, but I will if you keep this up.

Unless you actually ARE Erik Larsen, that was not a personal attack on you. As such, it would be unwise of you to respond to any comments I make with a personal attack. This would be true even if you didn't have a notorious history on this site. This would be true even if I didn't have moderator access. It is also worth pointing out that threatening to say something mean about someone else is a pretty feeble way of attempting to intimidate people.

By the way: I'm pretty sure you hate Larsen because his work is cheerful, optimistic and full of hope, heroic characters and positive messages,

Son, I'm not sure what Erik Larsen comics you've been reading, but either you don't know what a positive message is or you have a massively skewed concept of hope. Where are you finding hope? In Rapture's sex tape? In the ham-handed writing style of an author (and I use that term loosely) who quite literally penned a fistfight between God and The Devil, and then had the BALLS to publicly criticize Neil Gaiman, the architect of the most well-handled Judeo Christian cosmology in comics?

while you fap all over those comics/games/movies full of hopelessness, murderous unheroic psychopaths, negative messages and violence used for the sake of violence.

It would be EXTREMELY unwise of you to presume to know which comics/games/movies I enjoy, (let alone which ones I "fap" to.) It's unlikely you've even heard of Chew, or Mouse Guard, let alone actually read them, (to say nothing of Mike Carey's The Unwritten.) You'd need to be pretty INCREDIBLY foolish to assume that Ivan, a guy who routinely pontificates on this very site about the art of storytelling, would have standards that even vaguely resemble the ones you describe. Know what comic topped my list last year? Daniel Clowes' Mr. Wonderful. I am not going to even ask if you've heard of it, because you haven't, but if you were to pick a comic that is the exact opposite of everything you described above, it would be Mr. Wonderful.

There isn't really space to get into my gaming and film taste, but my favorite game last year was Space Chem, (thanks to Mr Graves for showing me that) and my favorite film was PINA- a posthumous documentary about a contemporary choreographer. Yeaaaah, not a lot of violence in that one. Thanks for playing.

Well, I'd much rather stick with the comic that gives me hope and joy, one where heroes are heroic and villains are villanous.

You are welcome to like Savage Dragon all you want, but I'm also free to tell you that the writing is not very good. There are a dozen great comics out there with a clear delineation between good and bad. Many of them are all-ages comics, and none of them insult the reader's intelligence the way Savage Dragon does. Check out Jeff Smith's Bone and anything by Carl Barks, for starters. Also, Villainous has two i's.

Also, you called John Byrne and Peter David (two really good and talented writers who also happened to be my favorites, John Byrne's "Doom Patrol" and Peter David's "The Incredible Hulk" are also two of favorite comic books ever) "tools". Not cool.

John Byrne and Peter David are both immensely talented comic book professionals. I love their work. I also am registered at ByrneRobotics and peterdavid.net and I can tell you they are both HUGE egotists, both are notoriously hard to work with, and both repeatedly run their mouths about comics they haven't read (so do Alan Moore and Frank Miller, come to that.) They are tools with a capital T, but we forgive them because they have done great work. Erik Larsen runs his mouth too, but has yet to contribute anything of value or substance to the medium. His record is the comic book industry equivalent of that kid in elementary school who got an award for perfect attendance.

My original post was largely tongue-in-cheek (voting a certain way in a CBUB match is morally reprehensible? Obvious joke is obvious.) I do somewhat take exception to "taste is subjective" being used as an excuse for not having any- taste in food is subjective too but there are some things that simply can't pass as edible. There is an accepted artistic consensus, and it is derived from both creators within the industry and a vocal fanbase that somehow manages to exist at the intersection of devout and hypercritical. Your personal feelings aside, Savage Dragon is not recognized by that consensus as a "good" comic. I don't particularly care one way or the other about Dragon, but Erik Larsen made himself a target by slamming the work of creators he should be emulating.

[BlueDream]

Mouse Guard is so good, you guys.

[bigballerju]

For once people are debating over comic writers, characters, and more like it should be. Not powers, abilites, and feats. By the way its true that in the comic industry Rob Liefeld is known as a shitty writer/artists. The comic cons where he has been completely disrespected and more are further prove.

[Callisto]

Match Final Results
USER RATINGS
C It's ok
D Gone have to do better in explaining why the characters are interacting. Doesn't have to be long but make it fun and interesting. Most of all keep true to the characters.
D Needs better characterization, more story, and better spelling in some spots.
SCORE
Rhino: 16
Savage Dragon: 8
FPA: 1.3