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Match 11499 Brainiac and General Zod vs. The Marvel Universe


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#21 Tyla7

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Posted 02 May 2012 - 10:15 AM

Odinforce Thor is enough by himself no Kryptonian can hurt him

#22 Delta Force

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Posted 02 May 2012 - 02:45 PM

With with update Marvel's chances have increased. With the front line Odinforce Thor, Sentry, World War Hulk, Black Bolt, Gladiator, Skaar, Red Hulk, Nova Prime, Wonder Man, and Ghost Rider. They will put up a fight to be remembered. The biggest problem is coordination. There needs to be a chain of command I would say Captain America but not up there. So it falls to Iron Man but he's only one man so he need generals. Which is Karnak, Scott Summers, Dr. Strange, Henry Pym. Now all that is missing Reed Richards to develop a Kryptonian Nuke. Then you would have me convinced.

#23 Confession FPT

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 06:22 AM

Solid, Solid A. Very good job.

#24 baneblade

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 09:18 AM

Hey BallerJu, Nice setup. But why, oh why my good bro 100,000? To make it worse, you threw in Braniac. No matter what you say here, I will always pick Braniac at his best as well, not at his worst. At his best, it means in addition to delaing with the experiene of Zod leading 100,000 kryptonians, the Marvel characters listed also face Braniac and his endless probes.

There's no chance in hell that Marvel lineup will stay intact ir survive long enough. From an expeirence perspective, when you see the 'fodder kryptonians' history, with a count way below the 100,000 strong you listed, they outlasted and even imprisoned the goody two shoes on earth in a matter of minutes. And most of those do gooders knew them, and even decimated them by exloiting their weaknesses. This time, even with the impressive Marvel lineup, if it doesn't take minutes, it will take an hour (and a half maybe) to complete the conquest of Marvel earth.

#25 Jaeger Panzer

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 10:41 AM

Uh - Odinforce Thor is a reality warper. There's no reason to think he wouldn't just eliminate the invading forces from Existence. He's conquered Earth in Marvel with the Odinforce. Imagine that being used against the invasion force alongside the others complementing him...

#26 xLEGACYx

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 10:49 AM

Uh - Odinforce Thor is a reality warper. There's no reason to think he wouldn't just eliminate the invading forces from Existence. He's conquered Earth in Marvel with the Odinforce. Imagine that being used against the invasion force alongside the others complementing him...

yeah, odinforce thor is the deciding factor here. He wipes out the kryptonians but without him the Marvel U would end up losing.

#27 baneblade

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 12:57 PM

You guys just can't have a 'reality warper' warping a 'picked' element from existence. Thor’s 'conquest of earth' came not at a whim, but with due 'preparation' of immense proportion and background 'groundwork' not reflected in the tale itself. Along with that one instant cited (earth's conquest), Thor's particular tale was an 'out of continuity' experience. I am accepting it though, but with a lot of cans being opened in the process, as you will now see. Check out the scribe's comments on the tale (I believe this was Jurgens, coupled with a few others, doesn't matter – don’t know if I or anyone can even find those now) Also, you can not ‘pick at random whatever Thor you wish here. It is like picking Superman 1,000,000 and laying his attributes right next to Superman Red Son. Is it the current Odinforce Odinson, or the alternate timeline ‘Earth conquest Thor’? I for one, will try to lay out the points for both versions.

In this match, these factors will have to be kept in mind, always: In every reality, whether 'other worldly' or current, Thor and Mjolnir are 'inseparable', and compliment one another in terms of power and channeling of energies.

The hook is (in the earth conquest, lame tale):
1) Thor was 'noble' in his intent of protecting and 're-creating earth'.
2) Earth's people were 'deserving' of a 'reformation' and its heroes and villains a 'nuisance' rather than an aid in earth's situation. Due to these 2 primary factors, Mjolnir (forged only for 'noble purposes and intents) was an aid to Thor's every channeling of energies and mystical 'applications'.
3) The self doubt (due to PISsy writing led Thor to relinquish his 'conquest') Even in that instant, Mjolnir corresponded prefectly because whatever Thor was doing was 'warranted' and he was 'worthy' of it.
4) Mjolnir in this case, if I recall the writing team's breakdown, or Thor lets say, worked against the human conscience, or for it. That's the way it always is.

In the regular, mainstream Marvel occurrences, even with a different Thor setting, the rules are still the same:
1) A warranted use of Mjolnir in extreme or normal circumstances. Ex: Killing Bor, made possible because there was no other way to avert disaster upon innocents, courtesy Straczynsky.
2) Mjolnir is somehow tethered to his essence now. Hence, things are a bit more difficult, since out of any possibility, Mjolnir breaking, breaks, or dents Thor
3) The current 'Odinforce' Thor is not what the previous 'lemme just conquer earth' Thor was. All feats came via Mjolnir, and Mjolnir validates his actions
4) If Odin, original weilder of the ‘odinforce’ could be touched, inspite of harbouring it, and even dented, I will bet the same will happen to Thor, particularly if these are opponents he’s never ‘timed’ himself against before.
The expected attack this time around is not from his usual demonic entities with complexes, or frost bars, but completely trained, powerful unit of kryptonians, led by a supreme tactician in Zod. Even with the heroes line up he has in tow, the sheer number will be a complex and fargone thing to just erase. Now, you could always say, so, what if Mjolnir ‘agrees’ to it, and sees complete justification in Thor’s actions? Well, then that is a what-if? It is a non-factor, till you make it a factor. My opinion is that in this current timeline, and especially when he couldn’t pull off the feat in the way you guys are reflecting it, inspite of heavy odds; in that, we are in a pickle, to say the least.

The new world as said above. is more conflicted than it has ever been. It simply means that absolute ‘erasing of kryptonians’ sounds like a far far shot. I say it will come down to battle. In a battle, more realistically, Thor won’t just wave Mjolnir and erase noble and corrupt kryptonians alike. It is much more complicated than that.

These factors will also come into play:
  • Like on a familiar world they conquered, this ‘unwarned’ planet will have the disadvantage of Braniac infiltrating it was well, drafting his technologies around the most prominent ‘tech savvy’ heavy hitters who wont have a prayer against him assimilating their tech as his own, along with subsequent sabotage of earth tech at an alarmingly fast and expansive rate
  • Earth’s heavy hitters at best, realistically, in comic terms are in disarray here. The kryptonians with one huge conquest of a ‘larger’ planet are more experienced as a unit. More than half the lineup on the Marvel side are much slower than them, and won’t be able to block out their voices when strategy is discussed, whereby through direct super hearing or through Braniac channeling his resources to the ears of the kryptonians, most strategic positions will be given away even while the kryptonians fly into battle.
  • The kryptonians have Kara on their side, which also means that they have other ‘krytponian’ resources, having conquered their previous homeworld, meaning they will have access to little toys like the phantom zone
  • They will scope out their attack, the Marvel line up will not. (Realistically speaking). If bro Baller says they are ready for the kryptonians, even then, this fleet of 100,00 strong, with abilities matching Superman, and only lacking in expeirence here and there is just too big a figure to surpass.

Unless our bro Baller adds some ‘facts n’ figures’ that I was not aware of, this fight by large or by margin, still belongs to the Kryptonians.

#28 Tyla7

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 01:57 PM

Well even if we take all of that into account Odinforce Thor still has massive firepower and so maybe he can't just erase the Kryptonians but he can still do HUGE amounts of damage to them, plus considering his wisdom (Knowledge of Runes, etc.) and tactical skills he'll probably find Zod and incinerate him with a full power energy blast leaving the Kryptonian army without leadership and without organization they'll be much easier to defeat.

#29 xLEGACYx

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 02:00 PM

Well even if we take all of that into account Odinforce Thor still has massive firepower and so maybe he can't just erase the Kryptonians but he can still do HUGE amounts of damage to them, plus considering his wisdom (Knowledge of Runes, etc.) and tactical skills he'll probably find Zod and incinerate him with a full power energy blast leaving the Kryptonian army without leadership and without organization they'll be much easier to defeat.

while the first part may be true, killing Zod might make things worse. The kryptonians have a lot of love and respect for him. They chose him over Kal-El to lead. Killing him might infuriate them and that would make things much worse.

#30 Tyla7

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 02:07 PM

Not necessarily, in a one-on-one fight rage may give some advantages (especially for someone like the Hulk) this is a battle between two armies. Ask any military expert, past or present, an infuriated and therefore unruly army is inferior to an organized, disciplined one. So, the Kryptonians anger could very easily work against them.

#31 baneblade

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 02:19 PM

Not necessarily, in a one-on-one fight rage may give some advantages (especially for someone like the Hulk) this is a battle between two armies. Ask any military expert, past or present, an infuriated and therefore unruly army is inferior to an organized, disciplined one. So, the Kryptonians anger could very easily work against them.


The on thing that will happen (in comic 'reality' terms) is that Zod is the last on the battle field. He will merely throw Braniac and a couple hundre Kryptonians at the line up first while letting Kara Zor El do the 'fill in' for him. That is, to address your one point. Realistically also, it would be a case of Braniac's thousands of probes simply crash landing on the lineup, along with a while lot of kryptonians. Also, realistically, many of the lineup simply can't stand and use their power without decimating their peers, making them in the lineup useful upton an extent. While the kryptonian line up has no 'complexitie' of this sort, again, you guys are looking at 100,000! That number, even if halved would have been a threat, but it is near insurmountable now. (I used 'near' as there is a possibility of the kryptonians' losing one one ground, that I neglected to mention in my previous posts). If Bro BallerJu comes back and adds some facts, ex' is the kryptonian lineup truly evil, and has no 'indirect' noble directives even, such as half the fleet that I assume (realistically) are noble, then the Odinforce will work its charm to the max. Without it, it is a decimating force (to clarify bro Legacy's point) that will do damage, but again, 100,000!!!!!. (Kryptonians). You need intellect to battle that, which I just do not see in the lineup right there. That intelligent foe is not among the lineup, and it wuld either be Superman, Batman or Luthor, who have had a lifetime of studying kryptonians. The current situation is so bad, it is not even funny.

#32 xLEGACYx

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 02:21 PM

Not necessarily, in a one-on-one fight rage may give some advantages (especially for someone like the Hulk) this is a battle between two armies. Ask any military expert, past or present, an infuriated and therefore unruly army is inferior to an organized, disciplined one. So, the Kryptonians anger could very easily work against them.

There would still be order to the kryptonians though Zod is the General but there are many other leaders in the sub structure just like any other army. So another person would become leader, more than likely Alura and she was just as ruthless when it came to protecting the kryptonians. Also you still have Brainiac in the mix to help lead. Basically you will be dealing with 99,999 pissed off Supermen with varying degrees of smartness from engineering, science, spritual, and military.

#33 baneblade

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 02:28 PM

The on thing that will happen (in comic 'reality' terms) is that Zod is the last on the battle field. He will merely throw Braniac and a couple hundre Kryptonians at the line up first while letting Kara Zor El do the 'fill in' for him. That is, to address your one point. Realistically also, it would be a case of Braniac's thousands of probes simply crash landing on the lineup, along with a while lot of kryptonians. Also, realistically, many of the lineup simply can't stand and use their power without decimating their peers, making them in the lineup useful upton an extent. While the kryptonian line up has no 'complexitie' of this sort, again, you guys are looking at 100,000! That number, even if halved would have been a threat, but it is near insurmountable now. (I used 'near' as there is a possibility of the kryptonians' losing one one ground, that I neglected to mention in my previous posts). If Bro BallerJu comes back and adds some facts, ex' is the kryptonian lineup truly evil, and has no 'indirect' noble directives even, such as half the fleet that I assume (realistically) are noble, then the Odinforce will work its charm to the max. Without it, it is a decimating force (to clarify bro Legacy's point) that will do damage, but again, 100,000!!!!!. (Kryptonians). You need intellect to battle that, which I just do not see in the lineup right there. That intelligent foe is not among the lineup, and it wuld either be Superman, Batman or Luthor, who have had a lifetime of studying kryptonians. The current situation is so bad, it is not even funny.


Oops, hit the post button in error. One more thing, Realistically, again, Zod will never have them fire off in one place. He will devide and conquer. Remember, the Marvel lineup is smart also, and will probably position themselves at least to stave off an initial attack in various locales. That also means their power will be broken up, and numbers severly overrun. I just can't see this in the Marvel lineup' sfavour, strategically, in terms of timeframe, and n terms of (especially) numbers.

#34 xLEGACYx

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 02:42 PM

I would just like to point out that giving the marvel side 300 people including all of Utopia, all of Logan's school, the Inhumans, and all heroes listed its still 333 vs 1 in Kryptonians favor (not including Brainiac drones)

Its 333 vs 1 if everyone is devided evenly. People like Iron Fist, Luke Cage, etc. would have there hands full with just one kryptonian really. So that would leave many of the heavy hitters, such as Hyperion, Nova Prime, Sentry, and Hulk fighting rough 600 kryptonians apiece if not more. The odds are just overwhelming.

#35 Tyla7

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 03:10 PM

Im man enough to admit when i've been beaten. I concede..............for now

#36 Delta Force

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 03:26 PM

Marvel's front line Odinforce Thor, Sentry, World War Hulk, Black Bolt, Gladiator, Skaar, Red Hulk, Nova Prime, Wonder Man, and Ghost Rider. Will have enough power to survive the fight. But what about everyone else. With out the brain power of Reed Richards, Doom, T'Challa they can even defend them selves. Unless they get mystical power ups which will take Asgard and Olympus.

#37 bigballerju

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 04:16 PM

You guys are forgetting Sentry and Quasar. Remember Sentry with a stable mind is up there or close to Odinforce Thor. Hell if Sentry with a unstable mind could destroy Asgard and god knows how many Asgardians along with ripping 2 Gods with ease. Just think what a stable mind Sentry would do with full power. Which we have seen stable mind Sentry is even above Silver Surfer in power. Plus you add in Quasar and others you have people close to power or right under Odinforce Thor.

Marvel has enough of a powerful force that they could hold off the Kryptonians while the big brains come up with a way to wipe out the Kryptonians or depower them. Hell remember Reed always seems to have access to the Negative Zone on him. Also you guys are forgetting the telepaths Marvel has, magic users, energy manipulaters, and more.

Just keep in mind Marvel has other options folks. I know 100,000 Kryptonians seems like a slaughter but Marvel can also get the victory too here if you really think about it.

#38 Delta Force

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 04:34 PM

Big brains are not listed and Karnak, Henry Pym, and Iron Man are the only one that is more valuable out of combat.

#39 kainboa

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 04:49 PM

Another thing to keep in mind, is that the Kryptonians, keep getting stronger the longer the fighting goes on, rather than weaker.

Hell, Zod and Braniac are smart enough to send a selected squad of Kryptonians on a quick sundip, increaseing their power and usefulness in the battle, then they replace some of the units already engaged in combat, who then go take a sundip, rince and repeat until every kryptonian have been sundipped.

#40 xLEGACYx

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 06:12 PM

Another thing to keep in mind, is that the Kryptonians, keep getting stronger the longer the fighting goes on, rather than weaker.

Hell, Zod and Braniac are smart enough to send a selected squad of Kryptonians on a quick sundip, increaseing their power and usefulness in the battle, then they replace some of the units already engaged in combat, who then go take a sundip, rince and repeat until every kryptonian have been sundipped.

quite resourceful. I didnt think of this alternative.

Also keep in mind that Brainiac drones will be in the mix and will be studying all intel gathered by the fights. Each wave of drones would be stronger than the next.




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