28 replies to this topic

[Tyla7]

What are you talking about? He nearly killed Malebolgia the first time by transforming into his demon form. Malebolgia came back stronger than ever, at which point Spawn killed Malebolgia by himself. Yes, he did trounce those entities with his powers, how about you actually read the comic you're arguing? The only point where he received a significant outside power boost was from the Miracle Man. I don't know what the hell you're talking about with the rest of that, but Spawn easily has the raw power to simply erase the opposition from existence.

Was that aimed at me? Cuz i didnt mention any of that

[baneblade]

What are you talking about? He nearly killed Malebolgia the first time by transforming into his demon form. Malebolgia came back stronger than ever, at which point Spawn killed Malebolgia by himself. Yes, he did trounce those entities with his powers, how about you actually read the comic you're arguing? The only point where he received a significant outside power boost was from the Miracle Man. I don't know what the hell you're talking about with the rest of that, but Spawn easily has the raw power to simply erase the opposition from existence.

Bro Force, I speak not out of conjecture but solid fact. Think about it, in past posts, you have oft dispersed power sets and feats when and where they were based on major PIS. If I only pick one point, that you made, and even 'LEGACY" pointed out, albiet more elaborately than I did. So, lets go ahead and see what you yourself (and quite accurately too) pointed out : They could have easily taken his power. Hence, logically, comically, categorically, it owuld not be just 'powers' that trumped Malebolgia and Satan, something else sprinkled in there. How did Spawn do it? Why not give us a step by step (but very brief) breakdown? You will see, that when you begin with it, you yourself will answer that question. In the least, you should have at least called it major PIS, but your tone seemes to advocate Spawn in that sense. See, I only know that if Galactus powers Surfer, then Surfer just can not beat him. No way in any universe is that possible, unless, circumstances, or 'endowments' change the landscape of battle. Agree? Lets hear it from your side bro, how Spawn trumped Malebolgia (I know about it but would like to see your statement and comic experience of it) and as I said, you will see what I mean as soon as you begin stating that particular event.

[force_echo]

Bro Force, I speak not out of conjecture but solid fact. Think about it, in past posts, you have oft dispersed power sets and feats when and where they were based on major PIS. If I only pick one point, that you made, and even 'LEGACY" pointed out, albiet more elaborately than I did. So, lets go ahead and see what you yourself (and quite accurately too) pointed out : They could have easily taken his power. Hence, logically, comically, categorically, it owuld not be just 'powers' that trumped Malebolgia and Satan, something else sprinkled in there. How did Spawn do it? Why not give us a step by step (but very brief) breakdown? You will see, that when you begin with it, you yourself will answer that question. In the least, you should have at least called it major PIS, but your tone seemes to advocate Spawn in that sense. See, I only know that if Galactus powers Surfer, then Surfer just can not beat him. No way in any universe is that possible, unless, circumstances, or 'endowments' change the landscape of battle. Agree? Lets hear it from your side bro, how Spawn trumped Malebolgia (I know about it but would like to see your statement and comic experience of it) and as I said, you will see what I mean as soon as you begin stating that particular event.

Hey, how about you give a detailed, step by step account of how Darkseid "beat" (as you claim) The Source, or how Thanos defeated any more powerful character?

[baneblade]

Hey, how about you give a detailed, step by step account of how Darkseid "beat" (as you claim) The Source, or how Thanos defeated any more powerful character?

Bro, a question as a response? OK. No prob. I never said Seid 'beat' the Source. I only said he faced him off, was the only New God standing alone to face him, and did so with brains, and his own credo. The Source was not depowered, or beat down when Seid faced him, raher the Source was at the height of his power.

Stats comparison will be funny when it comes to an opponent like the Source with that of Malebolgia. Given, 'Bolgia is powerful, but the Source is Absolute. 'Bolgia is given a domain, and is a subject among many. Image has stated this here and there. The Source is owner, fashioner, 'empowerer', and destroyer of his dominion, that of the New Gods' universe. The Source also 'source's' the 'Source Wall' (So many 'sources right there eh?), an object that emcompasses the powers and might of the Demi-Gods passed on and collected into it. Even a group of New Gods (Demi-Urge, Seid, Orion, High Father etc.) is not just a notch, but way above the known 'army' Malbolgia created. The Source 'sourced' whole worlds, and maintained them. Seid not only blindsided him, but faced him off. He didn't beat him (He logically just can't, which is why i am calling out the PIS factor)but fought him face to face, and that given period of time he survived or stood mano-a-mano proved that Seid is capable of things 'beyond' what we had been seeing in his underwritten tales. In a capsule, Seid faced off a much more complete, and powerful opponent, a feat that none of the Source's creation accomplished. To me, that singular feat is way more than any 'extra-endowed' hero can muster up.
Now, the following accrue directly in this fight:
1) Here, in this match, he is coupled with Thanos, a creature I consider less than Seid, but many consider more. I am not saying i am going with one opinion or another at this point: I am saying he is coupled with a titan who gave the entire Marvel U fits. If that tag team is not overwheling, I don't know which is.
2) I also argued that it is 'possible' that Seid and Thanos will be left alone by Rider, as they are very possibly, devoid of 'demonic or human soul attributes' and more like forces of nature on a certain collision course.
3) I also said, that if Seid and Thanos are comprising a human or demonic factor in terms of a soul, then they lose almost instantly.
However, I just don't see either Seid or Thanos subject to these laws on which the hell fire operates. Still, I left both posisbilities open, in the lement of fairness.

Now, since you didnot address the question: Spawn did not face Malebolgia (An opponent to me, much much lesser than the Source) till he was weakened. He also had aid, courtesy Angela, who struck one of the blows further weakening the demon. To me, that is not mano-a-mano. that is not one on one. That is 'extras'. Whether it be a concoction brewed by Spawn himself, or made on his advice, a power-up he devised and bolstered his abilities with, it was not Spawn's doing. These were extraneous factors that helped Spawn cross that PIS line and beat a creature that basically 'powered' him. Imagine, if Seid would have actually beat the Source, i would have called it major PIS of all time. The thing that 'spawned' you, powered you, killed by you, especially when it can take the powers instantly away from you? Think about it. I don't think even comics hit that rock bottom venue where they draw PIS within PIS. Simple reality is: Spawn had help, and the factor that Malebolgia was just not upto his good ol; self following a ravaging battle prior to Spawn an' Angie hitting him. These factors worked against him, and I fully accept them. I also call the feat still impressive, just not Seid impressive. As for any of the other powers you mention: alter reality, manipulate matter, traverse time, space continnum, traverse realms, create semi-realms, break others, some of these the two share. I would just give it to the much more experienced and less fallible and smarter one. That's all. Cheers.

[force_echo]

Yeah, Spawn has a power neither of those guys have, a pretty important one. It's called freaking reality warping. Anything Thanos and Darkseid do to him, any one of their powers, he can counter. What can these guys do to keep from simply dying? Spawn wins here, he's more powerful. Also, Spawn didn't kill Malebolgia, he was just wounded in Spawn 100, Malebolgia came back and Spawn used his demon transformation to kill him for good. Also, as far as Malebolgia's power, he's about as powerful as The Source, second to only Satan himself.

[xLEGACYx]

Yeah, Spawn has a power neither of those guys have, a pretty important one. It's called freaking reality warping. Anything Thanos and Darkseid do to him, any one of their powers, he can counter. What can these guys do to keep from simply dying? Spawn wins here, he's more powerful. Also, Spawn didn't kill Malebolgia, he was just wounded in Spawn 100, Malebolgia came back and Spawn used his demon transformation to kill him for good. Also, as far as Malebolgia's power, he's about as powerful as The Source, second to only Satan himself.

Well if Malebolgia is second only to Satan he is massively below the Source. Seeing as how the Source created all in the DCU including Satan and Hell among many other "gods".

As far as the Reality Warping goes, Darkseid can manipulate matter, energy, and reality as well. So thats a mute point now. On top of Darkseid, Thanos canmanipulate matter and all forms of energy as well. So Spawn just doesnt have the power to handle them. Much less at the same time.

[Tyla7]

Plus, Malebolgia isn't second only to Satan there have been a few others shown to be stronger: Mammon and Urizen, that doesn't change the fact i think Spawn & Ghost Rider team doesn't win (i already explained that) but its an interesting fact.

[baneblade]

Yeah, Spawn has a power neither of those guys have, a pretty important one. It's called freaking reality warping. Anything Thanos and Darkseid do to him, any one of their powers, he can counter. What can these guys do to keep from simply dying? Spawn wins here, he's more powerful. Also, Spawn didn't kill Malebolgia, he was just wounded in Spawn 100, Malebolgia came back and Spawn used his demon transformation to kill him for good. Also, as far as Malebolgia's power, he's about as powerful as The Source, second to only Satan himself.

Hey bro Force. It seems our good fellow ferreters Legacy and Tyla agree with me on the 'power comparison' thing, which believe it or not, is directly a key ingredient in determining a winner. It seems we are all in the dreaded 'grey area', where you say Malebolgia = Source. I say no. I say no for logical reasons. Malebolgia is not master of his own spehere of creation, Source is. Malebolgia is subject to the laws of creation in his realm, and like a geneticist, borrows from readily endowed life. Source creates that life and then brands it. Sorry bro, Source is technically in terms of power, above Satan as Satan too, though re-forming his realm, or increasing it, is subject to the laws of creation and is confined to that landscape (not literally speaking, but in essence). Source creates such landscapes. True, he didn't 'spawn' the entire DC Universe, as that is attributed to 'The Voice/God' as supreme creator (strictly speaking in DC universe' terminology), but is absolute master and creator in his own given universe of the New Gods and all worlds that are in that jurisdiction. I am sorry, but in terms of power, even if you say you see it that way, you really shouldn't as Source's scope in those terms far outpaces hell's minions. That was discussion aside, for the upteenth time. In terms of the match, Spawn's approach is the guttural, usually. Seid and Thanos' isn't.

In all the ruckus of words and opinions, we still have to comprehend, that where Spawn could do things to them, they can do things to him. While he has been 'touched' with signatures here and there, you just can't argue that whatever Seid and Thanos hit him with, he will just withstand. Remember, even when Thanos had the gauntlet, and over the top control, he was at least tagged once, be it he didnt go down. But, the nature of Seid's powers is such, that any entity can be touched, and when it does get touched, there are always effects, the way Seid intended. That does not mean Spawn can't touch Seid, but it does mean that where Seid will weather Spawn's onslaught, Spawn will definitely weather his. I am only gauging opponents' wise.

You seem to suggest that nothing they throw at him will work. I do not agree. If Seid can touch the Source, he will most definitely tag Spawn, and when he does, I will never simply discard the posisbility of the effects of that one tag. Whether it is splitting Spawn's essence into multiple realities, or altering his current state, disorienting him through multiple dimension teleportations, or re-arranging his atoms into a convenient energy source. If SPawn tags and it hurts, so does Seid or Thanos' bit. Saying there is something stopping that will only work when the specific ability or power has stemmed a power of that caliber or nature before. If it heasn;t (and I know it hasn't), then both stats, Spawn's and Seid's stand as objects of comparison. That is not the way I am saying it is bro, that is the way it just is.