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Match 11269 The Death Star vs. Vegeta


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#21 Ruinus

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 01:27 PM

LOL wow have we forgotten the first season when Vegeta first fought Goku he launched a planet busting attack at the Earth in anger which Goku countered back with a Kamahamaha sending it back up toward Vegeta which Vegeta dodged.


Without a clip? Yes, I have forgotten.

#22 Ruinus

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 01:44 PM

Well the moon is about 1/6 the size of earth and it was blown up by piccolo. Master Roshi had blown up the moon in dragon ball with only a power level of 270. So if vegeta is at 17000 and the moon can be destroyed at 270 vegeta could blow up the moon 62.96 times over. Much larger than the earth.


The Moon was blown up twice? How many moons does this planet have?

Gravitational binding energy. The moon, assuming it's got the same size as the real life Earth Moon, has a GBE of 1.24E+29 J. The Earth has a GBE of 2.24E+32 J. Vegeta would need 1,000 times the energy to go from blowing up the Moon to blowing up the Earth.

Mind, this is on the idea that power levels actually increases the amount of energy linearly or something like that. And that increased powerlevel just allows anyone to throw up planet destroying things all the time.

#23 Ruinus

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 01:50 PM

1. Don't be a moron. You obviously know the series. I'm not gonna waste my time posting stuff from Youtube.
2. Vegeta destroyed that bug planet with one shot. Vegeta threatened to destroy earth with one shot.
3. The spirit bomb was the only example I could think of off the top of my head in the entire series where beam width was ever a factor. The point is power =/= size. Unless you're willing to give the entire encounter Star Wars physics as a handicap, The Z-verse has more instances of high-energy attacks to go from.
3. Taking his word for it? Well, YEAH. In the absence of having the writer sitting on the couch next to us saying "oh, no that robot's TOTALLY bluffing" then we as viewers are forced to accept that what the characters say, unless ixnayed by another character, are plausible truths. If we didn't take ANYTHING for granted, we'd never get anything done.


1. Then don't waste time making claims you can't back up.
2. No evidence, and since you won't go around Youtube to show these events, I'll ignore this claim.
3. And it was an irrelevant example because Vegeta doesn't have that ability.
4. No, we aren't forced to take their word as truth. We take visuals as proof.

#24 Ruinus

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 02:20 PM

By the way, by the OP the Death Star appeared in the sky close enough that it was able to be seen with people's eyes. Assuming it's at the highest point still considered "atmosphere", then the Death Star is up in the exosphere.

The Death Star was six planetary diameters away from Alderaan when it destroyed it, equal to about 76,000 km. The beam, according to the quote I posted on the previous page, took 10 seconds to travel from the superlaser dish to the planet*. So the beam has a speed of about 7,600 km per second. At that speed, and assuming the Death Star is 10,000 km up in the "sky", it'll take the beam 1.31 seconds to hit the Earth. Add in the "second or so for the tributary beams to coalesce", Vegeta has either 2.31 to 3.31 seconds to finish charging up, to move into position, to fire whatever attack he's shooting and for the attack to reach out and deflect/overwhelm/destroy the superlaser before it blows up the Earth.

If the Death Star is at the beginning of the exosphere, at around 500 km in the sky, then Vegeta has only 1 or 2 seconds to do all those things. Since at the superlaser's speed it'll be an almost instant hit after the beams form the main superlaser shot.

Then ask yourself when, in the entire history of Dragon Ball, has someone charging up ever taken less than a second or two.

*This is going by the timer and assuming it counts the exact moment of destruction, going by the movie the beam travels from the Death Star to Alderaan in about a second.

#25 Guest_Ethan_*

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 03:16 PM

All the Z fighters have varying power levels throughout the show.
I see him trying to block/ repel the blast with his own but being overcome by its sheer power, now, does he save the Earth? Maybe. Probably.
Can the Deathstar fire again or does it need to take time to charge for a second blast?

I can't imagine Vegeta stopping this blast...Goku maybe, he's always doing that.

#26 Hastur

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 03:17 PM

Without a clip? Yes, I have forgotten.

I take it back. Be as big a moron as you like. If you're going to try and defend your debate position by making a point and then putting your fingers in your ears and going LALALAICAN'THEARYOU when a counterpoint is raised then I'm not gonna stick around to watch. Have fun semi-autistically trolling the match.

#27 Ruinus

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 03:23 PM

I take it back. Be as big a moron as you like. If you're going to try and defend your debate position by making a point and then putting your fingers in your ears and going LALALAICAN'THEARYOU when a counterpoint is raised then I'm not gonna stick around to watch. Have fun semi-autistically trolling the match.


Why should I entertain a claim without evidence? He wants to say that Buu spammed out planet destroying attacks that Vegeta blocked? Great. He can provide evidence of that before I even argue it.

Hey, that's great. Leave the match. You're not going to bother to back up your arguments anyway, so there's no conceivable way you could actually contribute to this debate at all.

#28 Ruinus

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 03:26 PM

Can the Deathstar fire again or does it need to take time to charge for a second blast?


It looks like this is the Death Star I, which means that it has a 24 hour recharge time between full powered shots.

Either way, it doesn't matter. The Death Star is already in the process of firing, it's close enough that the beam will hit instantly, and the entire firing sequence takes about 1 or 2 seconds. Vegeta, even if he had the power necessary to block the superlaser (something I highly doubt), doesn't have enough time to do shit.

#29 Guest_llebannaaoj_*

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 04:21 PM

Ruinus:The superlaser doesn't at all work like any of the ki attacks from Dragon Ball

well first ki blasts and lases are kind of the same since both are light and energy so yes vegeta could stop it or he would use a shield...

#30 Ruinus

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 04:31 PM

well first ki blasts and lases are kind of the same since both are light and energy so yes vegeta could stop it or he would use a shield...


No, they aren't. Not only is the superlaser not a laser but ki blasts work nothing like real life energy beams. Look at that Final Flash HD video I posted on the previous page, it touches the Earth at several points and does nothing at all. It doesn't heat the ground, it doesn't knock the clouds out of the way, it doesn't heat any of the surrounding area. Ki blasts can be held in people's hands, real life lasers won't do that. Ki blasts touch the ground and smash it as if it was an actual object. Ki blasts can hit people and push them as if they were actual objects (Broly was killed in this manner, and while I know he's non-canon, I'm sure other times similar things have occured). Ki blasts most noticeably do not move at light speed.

Also, again, everyone seems to be forgetting that the Death Star is already firing the superlaser, Vegeta only has a second or two to do anything, he basically has an impossibly small window of opportunity to do anything at all except sit there, yell and charge up and then die along with everyone else.

#31 Rupertmetal

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 05:13 PM

Vid of Vegeta planet busting:



And that was before he even went SSJ. Also, he's breathing in space, so if earth was destroyed he wouldn't be with it. However, I think he would be able to protect the earth. He'd cancel out or overpower the death star's attack, and counter with his own if necessary. He can easily dodge anything the death star has to throw at him. However the death star is gigantic. A sitting duck.

#32 The Lord Dragon Reborn

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 05:22 PM

I love Star Wars but I'm afraid that the Death Star is extremely out matched on this one. Vegeta has no problem deflecting the blast back and ultimatly making the Death Star the cause of it own distruction.

And my "evidence" is......... I DON'T NEED EVIDENCE!!! This is a fantasy scenario situation that the author is asking our OPINION on. It seems to me that MOST of us are of the OPINION that Vegeta has no problem making the ultimate space station his biatch.

#33 Ruinus

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 05:46 PM

Vid of Vegeta planet busting:



And that was before he even went SSJ. Also, he's breathing in space, so if earth was destroyed he wouldn't be with it. However, I think he would be able to protect the earth. He'd cancel out or overpower the death star's attack, and counter with his own if necessary. He can easily dodge anything the death star has to throw at him. However the death star is gigantic. A sitting duck.


Huh, so he can.

How's he going to act within 1 or 2 seconds to do anything? Again, the Death Star is already firing while Vegeta is still charging up. Also, Vegeta would be more damaged by the giant Earth shattering explosion that's going to go off behind him and not the lack of air.

#34 Ruinus

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 05:56 PM

By the way, about this whole "Vegeta will overpower the superlaser blast!" stuff going on.

Official Power Levels:
At the Vegeta saga his power level is listed as 18,000.

Let's assume he blew up that planet with pure energy transfer rather than some chain reaction effect. So he's got 1E+32 J of energy in him. (Which I don't for a second buy).

Down in the Freiza saga his highest power level is listed as 6,000,000. This means his power level, from the beginning of the series to the last official listing jumped by a factor of 333. This means that his power of 1E+32 J was also multiplied by 333 and led to 3.33E+34.

The Death Star's super laser, on the other hand, is calced at 1E+38 J.

Vegeta, therefore, at his highest power level listed in Super Saiyan form still needs to be 3,003 times more powerful to match the Death Star superlaser.

Fact is, he isn't going to be blocking, deflecting or shielding the Earth.

#35 Ruinus

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 06:03 PM

In fact, I'll go out of my way and make shit up now.

Vegeta's power level when he blew up that planet was 18,000. 1E32 J.

Let's say that his current power level in this set up is 2,000,000,000. 2 billion at his strongest.* Therefore, he'd have, at most, 1.11E+37 J of energy into his strongest attack if he completely exhausts his entire Ki supply into this SUPER BEAM ATTACK OF DEATH RAR!

The Death Star's superlaser is still 9 times stronger.*

*By multiplying his 6,000,000 super Saiyan power level by 333 again.
**Keep in mind that, according to the recent Death Star novel (which I quoted already) the superlaser is so powerful that some parts of Alderaan were literally launched into faster than light velocities.

So basically, in case you don't want to read that all over.
Vegeta at 2 BILLION power level launching his entire Ki supply into an all out super attack is still 9 times weaker than the superlaser blast.

#36 Jaeger Panzer

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 07:44 PM

Huh. Vegeta destroying Planet Arlia is non-canon or so I was told.

#37 force_echo

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 09:55 AM

It seems like everything in Dragonball Z is noncanon.

#38 Ruinus

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 10:36 AM

Why would it be non-canon? Because it didn't happen in the comic?

#39 bigballerju

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 11:05 AM

Well one in the setup Vegeta is already charged up before Vader even told them to fire. Two I its very easy to get clips of Goku vs Vegeta from Season One which if you have watched DBZ you would remember this famous scene that proves Vegeta is a planet buster:



#40 force_echo

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 11:54 AM

I think that clip just proved that there's no way Vegeta would be able to charge up a planet busting attack in the time before the Death star fires.




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