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Match 10920 Cooler vs. Black Adam

 

You Be The Judge

Cooler

Black Adam


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#21 sirmethos

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 11:08 AM

-snip-


I will, again, reply to this a little at a time.

"Well as far as durability, does Black Adam have the durability OF a GOD since he has their powers or would this be a moot point seeing that he was created by magic?"

Well, that depends on exactly what you mean by "durability OF a GOD".

I believe the best feat of durability from Black Adam(though I could be wrong, since my memory is not perfect), is the fact that Superboy-Prime was completely unable to hurt him(despite SBP being one of the physically most powerful beings in the DC multiverse). Superboy-Prime is far more powerful than Black Adam, and thus Adam was unable to harm SBP as well. The fight between them ended with them going their separate ways, because they realized that simply pounding away was futile when neither of them was capable of doing any damage.



"I know speed comes into play here yet is speed really that much of a factor?"

Yes, yes it is.

I'll go into more detail on the later.


"My whole point is even IF Black Adam was too much for Cooler I don't see the fight playing out to where Cooler would just get dominated in seconds with no way of possibly hanging with Black Adam at all."

That's because you are too focused on how powerful Cooler is, and don't have enough knowledge about Black Adam and his powers. I'll get into this in more detail later, along with the speed issue.


"Cooler obviously has telekenesis as one of his powers though I do not think it was seen as that. In his fight with Goku he ripped up tons of earth simply with a gesture from his arm. Black Adam can't do that."

Not completely true. Through the Power of Isis, Black Adam has telekinesis as well, though it is unknown what the exact power level of that telekinesis is. Black Adam is also capable of powerful telekinesis through magic, being one of the most powerful sorcerers in the DC universe.


"As far as strength he hit Goku so hard that he knocked him through layers of the earth forming a deep crevice. The crevice so deep that Goku had to fly out of it to get out. Now I am not a guru of calculating power yet to knock someone that far and THAT deep into the earth would have to make them way above class 100."

Not necessarily. Put up a scan/screenshot of the feat in question, then the specific strength needed can be figured out. But from the description you're giving, it is far from a definite "class 100+" feat.


"One of the FLAWS of DBZ is that again it did not concentrate on feats of strength to give you an idea of where these guys are."

Personally I think it's one of the few good things about DBZ, but that might just be me. Anyway, there are some feats of strength throughout DB and DBZ. The biggest problem when it comes to that, is that DB/DBZ is wildly inconsistent when it comes to their capabilities.


"I was reading the manga and Master Roshi blew up the moon at HIS level when Goku was a CHILD."

This feat alone, doesn't really say much. Especially when taking into account, the consistently low showings of power later on in the series.


"Cooler going at Goku and not being able to do a lot to him after Goku went SS to me still doesn't mean that he's not on the level of a Black Adam simpy due to speed itself."

That's true. Just the fact that Cooler couldn't do much to Goku as SS alone, doesn't mean he's not on the level of Adam. It's his overall power and speed, compared to Black Adam's overall power and speed, that shows that Cooler is not on the level of Black Adam.



"I don't expect anyone to REALLY agree yet I do think he could take Black Adam to his limits if there were more examples of exactly what he could do at his power level."

Highly doubtful. Even if he was completely equal to Black Adam in terms of strength and durability, Adam would still pound him into the ground with relative ease. Primarily due to the speed difference, but also due to Black Adam's other powers.


"Cooler has been listed at 470,000, 000 and you couldn't see units of power like that above the Hulk?"

Uh, not true. Cooler does not have an official power level. There are no official power levels given in DBZ after the battle with Frieza where Goku goes SS for the first time.

As for whether that power is above Hulk or not. That depends on a few things. 1. Which version of Hulk we're talking about. and 2. How enraged Hulk is.

Considering the fact that Hulk has no upper limit to his power, his strength, durability and stamina, is potentially FAR above anyone from the DBZ universe. But at his base level(for most versions of him), he is below most upper-level DBZ characters.


"So the next thing someone would say is that Cooler couldn't handle the Hulk? Maybe I should write that as a battle and see what would happen."

That fight would be like this one, only in reverse. Cooler's speed is so far beyond Hulk's, that Hulk wouldn't stand a chance of winning(though it could potentially become a stalemate, if Hulk's power grows to the point where Cooler is incapable of harming him).




Now, to go more into detail on the issue of Speed, and Cooler getting dominated in seconds:

First, we need to take a few things into account. 1. The speed difference. Even if we generously put Cooler at .99% of Light Speed, Black Adam is still several times faster than he is. Not just a few thousand miles per hour, but several times faster. 2. Black Adam's powers, most noticably, the Wisdom of Zehuti, Unlimited Stamina, Near Instant regeneration(by using his Lightning), and his raw magical power, that puts him as one of the most powerful sorcerers in the DC universe.


Now, with the Wisdom of Zehuti, Black Adam is, at the point where the fight starts, already aware of Cooler's powers. Perhaps not his specific level of power, but definitely his general capabilities. Due to his speed(the Swiftness of Heru, that also allows Black Adam's though process to be at heightened speed), Black Adam can process that information, and set up a battle plan, in split seconds(this is before Cooler has a chance to do anything).

At this point, the battle actually begins. Black Adam is fairly arrogant, and secure in his physical power, so his initial plan will simply be to physically pummel Cooler into the ground.

Now, charging at Cooler, and pummeling away on him at top speed, Cooler becomes a bloody paste, in seconds.


To explain this in detail:

1. Black Adam's strength is somewhere above 1 million tons.
2. A full powered punch from Black Adam(at normal human speed), has a force of somewhere between 3 and 5 million tons behind it.
3. That power, is further enhanced by coming at near(or beyond) Light speed(I'll let those that are better at math than me, do the actual calculations on the force of a punch like that, if anyone is actually willing to do the calculations).
and 4. At full speed, Cooler is not just getting hit by one, or two, or even ten, punches like that. he is getting hit by several Hundred, if not Thousands of punches like that, every second.

While Cooler might be able to handle taking a single full powered punch, at full speed. Or even a few of them. The sheer onslaught of being hit, that many times, at that power, is enough to completely take him out, and leave him a bloody smear on the ground.


Now to explain the speed:

To explain it, I'll set up 2 scenarios.

1. Black Adam is attacking. Imagine that Cooler is standing there, now Black Adam charges at him, at full speed. With the speed difference in mind, Cooler won't even notice that Adam is moving, before he is being hit/pummeled. At that speed, the first 10-100 punches, have already hit Cooler, before he even registers it. The next 10-100 punches, are hitting him before he has a chance to say "ow". The next few hundred punches then hits him. It is not until this point, that Cooler has even managed to lift his arms to try defending himself from the onslaught, let alone think about attacking. And with the amount of damage he has already taken, he is so weakened that it is a matter of seconds(if that) before he is dead.


2. Cooler is attacking. Imagine again, that Cooler and Adam are standing there. Adam being arrogant, waits for Cooler to make the first move, and Cooler uses the Instant Transmission, to teleport behind Black Adam. Now, with his enhanced senses, Adam is able to hear the displacement of the air, the instant that Cooler appears behind him. With the speed difference in mind. Adam is now able to turn around, and pummel on Cooler(see scenario 1), before Cooler ever has a chance to do anything other than standing there, taking it like a man.


Bottom Line: Cooler is already dead. He, along with Black Adam and the rest of the world, is just waiting for the remains of his body to catch up to that fact.

#22 Guest_anu_*

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 01:24 PM

Hey...thanks for the very astute description...that is immensely useful information.

#23 Guest_anu_*

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Posted 29 February 2012 - 09:06 AM

Forgive me, I am not trying to keep this thread relevant on purpose yet, I wonder did anyone rate this as good or what? I can live with who loses, i am wanting feedback on the setup if anyone chooses to give it. I can't see who voted or how many votes were given on this.

Thanks in advance if any care to.

#24 Guest_anu_*

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 02:55 PM

I know Sirmethos addressed most the usual DBZ concerns for why Cooler doesn't stack up to Black Adam. But I got some general concerns of my own. Like, how can you truelly say DBZ characters are or aren't faster than light when it's never said in either case.

The Gotenks around the world several times in a few seconds is a really solid feat FOR being as fast or faster than light... if light takes 8 min to reach earth from the sun, and 16 laps around the earth is roughly the same distance. So high tier DBZ is Lightspeed for me (open to persuasion).

A last note that always pesters me with global level heroes, mainly just Superman, is how we can say they have so much durability, speed, and power. But in many MANY cases we see them knocked aside [momentarily, but still] by street level villains, late to react to attacks, and unable to break things that they on another day would dodge or atomize with ease?


But Adam still wins...

One of the better posts I have seen in support of DBZ...people just don't see them in the same light to understand the scope of their powers.

#25 force_echo

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 03:04 PM

First of all, that claim is mathematically inaccurate. Light travels around the planet 7.5 times in 1 second. This guy took several seconds to go around the planet once. How is that faster than light?

#26 bigballerju

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 03:21 PM

What street level villains knock Superman aside? Metallo, Grundy, Bizarro, Livewire, and more are hardly street level so your not proving your point there. Oh and for the last time Superman holds back when using his power.

#27 Guest_anu_*

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Posted 05 March 2012 - 10:59 AM

Overall there are some things I think that in the marvel universe compared to the dc universe or even marvel just don't mix with DBZ. For example, if Cooler were going against the Hulk people would more than likely say he wouldn't even beat the hulk because the hulk's strength is supposedly limitless. Well, even with the hulk being disconnected as 'savage hulk' with no restrictions on his rage he would never be able to smash through and entire planet and destroy it. Yet would he survive being tossed into the sun? Cooler was tossed into the sun and it eventually destroyed him yet it was not an instant death. Can Black Adam survive that?

Plus this thing about light speed with DBZ is wrong. Instant Transmission IS light speed and Goku and characters like cooler did it BEFORE Cooler returned as Meta Cooler. Instant Transmission is LIGHT SPEED because people seem to forget that even in the lower stages of skill people like Yamcha when the Saiyans first came to earth was fighting a being who was 1200 and they were moving so fast then normal eyes couldn't see them. They actually disappeared they were moving so fast.

Goku when arriving on planet namek was moving so fast he could not be seen when the Ginyu force shot at him, they only saw his shoes in the sand. Now this was BEFORE he became super saiyan. If that is the case and Cooler was stronger than Frieza, he would move at light speed, you can still SEE something moving at the speed of sound, you can't at light speed. If you can't see it move then that's light speed at least or in the range.

When has black adam ever generated an energy attack that COULD destroy a planet and would he be able to block something like that the same way Goku did? He doesn't absorb energy as far as I know so what other chance would he have yet to punch it? I doubt anything he threw magical could stop it. Again Master Roshi destroyed the MOON when GOKU was a KID and none of them had even reached 1200 at that time, not even GOKU had though Roshi was seen as the strongest on the planet in his day.

By the time you would get to SS1 level you would be beyond the speed of light and strength. Goku after he was killed and worked out with the Supreme Kai with 10 ton weights on his arms and legs and wasn't even slowed down by doing it, punching super speed , blurringly fast.

Feats of strength were not shown properly in DBZ yet I don't believe Superman or Black Adam would obliterate cooler because he has the same durability as they do though destroyed by the sun. I don't know if black adam could survive the sun's surface at all.

#28 Nova Force Nova

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Posted 05 March 2012 - 11:07 AM

Its not lightspeed, it's teleportation. Goku has said that himself.

God, what you're trying to say is so stupid, I have no choice but to believe that you're mentally retarded. Just because you can see something moving at the speed of sound and no one could see someone's movements in a fight, doesn't make them lightspeed. There is A LOT of difference between the two speeds.

#29 sirmethos

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Posted 05 March 2012 - 12:17 PM



-sigh-

This is not meant as an insult, but as a serious question. Do you suffer from some kind of personality disorder?

Because with this particular topic, it seems like every time you manage to see some sense, a little time goes by, and then the few braincells that have actually manage to function rationally, get mob-attacked by the rest.


I'll try to explain it, one last time, slowly and in detail.


"if Cooler were going against the Hulk people would more than likely say he wouldn't even beat the hulk because the hulk's strength is supposedly limitless."

I already addressed this particular point. A fight between Cooler and Hulk, would be similar to the fight between Cooler and Black Adam, only in reverse. Cooler is so much faster than Hulk, that Hulk would never stand a chance. However, if Hulk's rage(and thereby Power) manages to rise beyond a certain point, then Cooler simply wouldn't be able to do any damage to Hulk, which would result in a Tie.


"Well, even with the hulk being disconnected as 'savage hulk' with no restrictions on his rage he would never be able to smash through and entire planet and destroy it."

Not true. In the end of the World War Hulk storyline, Hulk is so powerful that just his footsteps are threatening to crack the planet. A full-powered punch from Hulk would shatter the planet completely.

"Yet would he survive being tossed into the sun?"

Yes, yes he would.

With Hulk, it's not just his Strength that increases through rage. His Regeneration, Durability and Adaptation also rise along with his strength.

This means that, going with your example of Hulk having reached 'unlimited strength', he would also have Unlimited Durability, Regeneration and Instant Adaption. At that point, being thrown into the sun wouldn't do anything to Hulk at all.


"Cooler was tossed into the sun and it eventually destroyed him yet it was not an instant death. Can Black Adam survive that?"

In a word, yes.

Captain Marvel(a hero with the exact same powers as BA, only slightly weaker), has flown directly through the sun with no visible discomfort. They(the Marvel family) are also stated as having durability equal to Superman.


"Plus this thing about light speed with DBZ is wrong. Instant Transmission IS light speed and Goku and characters like cooler did it BEFORE Cooler returned as Meta Cooler."

No, the "thing about light speed with DBZ" is not wrong.

Instant Transmission is Teleportation, that is directly stated by Goku.

And aside from IT(or using space ships), no one in DBZ are capable of moving Faster Than Light. One of the best speed feats from DBZ(Gotenks circling the planet), is considerably below the speed of light.


"Instant Transmission is LIGHT SPEED because people seem to forget that even in the lower stages of skill people like Yamcha when the Saiyans first came to earth was fighting a being who was 1200 and they were moving so fast then normal eyes couldn't see them. They actually disappeared they were moving so fast."

No, Instant Transmission is Teleportation.

And moving "so fast that normal eyes couldn't see them", =/= light speed.

Jet Li and Jackie Chan, during the filming of The Forbidden Kingdom, in their first fight scene together, moved so fast that they had to re-shoot the scene, because they moved too fast for the camera(they were just blurs on the first recording). According to what you're saying, that means that Jet Li and Jackie Chan are both capable of moving Faster Than Light. Which we both know is complete bullshit.


"Goku when arriving on planet namek was moving so fast he could not be seen when the Ginyu force shot at him, they only saw his shoes in the sand. Now this was BEFORE he became super saiyan. If that is the case and Cooler was stronger than Frieza, he would move at light speed, you can still SEE something moving at the speed of sound, you can't at light speed. If you can't see it move then that's light speed at least or in the range."

"you can still see something moving at the speed of sound". Oh really? I invite you to go find an old revolver, then you fire the gun and see if you can see the bullet. When you have fired all 6(or 8) shots in the revolver, and you have realized that you are not capable of seeing the bullet, even after 8 tries, you can then come back and tell us that what you just said is bullshit.(I also refer you to the example I gave above, with Jackie Chan and Jet Li).

Again, the best speed feat from DBZ, i.e. Gotenks circling the planet several times in a few seconds, is considerably below the speed of light.


"When has black adam ever generated an energy attack that COULD destroy a planet and would he be able to block something like that the same way Goku did?"

Black Adam doesn't really use energy attacks, he primarily uses Physical attacks. And a full powered punch from Black Adam is powerful enough to easily destroy a planet.

As for blocking, he took the best punches from Superboy-Prime, without taking any damage(Superboy-Prime is a LOT stronger than BA, and could easily destroy a planet, even at half power). He has also taken a full powered shot from Superman's Heat Vision(stated to be the same temperature as the sun), and simply shrugged it off.

And that is completely ignoring the fact, that Cooler would never be able to actually land an attack on Adam, due to Adam's (far)superior Speed.


"He doesn't absorb energy as far as I know so what other chance would he have yet to punch it? I doubt anything he threw magical could stop it."

No, he doesn't absorb energy. But he could create magical shields that could easily block a "planet destroying energy attack". Keeping in mind that he is one of the most powerful sorcerers in the DC universe.


"Again Master Roshi destroyed the MOON when GOKU was a KID and none of them had even reached 1200 at that time"

What does this have to do with anything?


"By the time you would get to SS1 level you would be beyond the speed of light and strength."

No, you really wouldn't. None of the DBZ characters, even at SS4, are capable of moving faster than light.


"Goku after he was killed and worked out with the Supreme Kai with 10 ton weights on his arms and legs and wasn't even slowed down by doing it, punching super speed , blurringly fast."

Again, what does this have to do with anything? 40 tons is basically nothing. And keep in mind that before he transformed to SS1, Goku could barely move with those 40 tons attached to him.


"Feats of strength were not shown properly in DBZ yet I don't believe Superman or Black Adam would obliterate cooler because he has the same durability as they do though destroyed by the sun. I don't know if black adam could survive the sun's surface at all."

1. There are plenty of strength feats in DBZ. It's just a matter of doing a little math.

2. Cooler died by getting thrown into the sun. That alone shows that he does not have the same durability as Superman or Black Adam.



Bottom Line: Black Adam has far superior Speed, Durability, Stamina, Strength and raw power(his magic). While Cooler has superior Combat Skills, that alone isn't enough to prevent him from being pummeled to death in seconds.

#30 Guest_anu_*

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Posted 05 March 2012 - 03:46 PM

You know if you guys want to debate then do that yet there is no need to bring all this stuff that goes personal and very disrespectful into it. That is just way out of line and while you seem to be a know it all or think you are hey just agree to disagree on it. You don't understand the DBZ series because you are fully in support of comics characters. You aren't master of the universe to know all things. Cooler is on black adam's level and you guys can keep your insults to yourself. Have I said anything to either of you that is disrespectful personally? No i haven't. If you can't handle that i don't disagree then its a problem with you. YOU not me. You guys see somebody that won't agree with you and you call them out of their name, every word under the sun that is disrespectful and yet get praised and respected for this.

You see no need to just agree to disagree. You can't understand the scope of power of DBZ you just don't. A man can zap himself to a planet in mere seconds but..that's not light speed? Goku (even though he's not in this battle) could go to other planets like that with a thought. Black Adam can't do that. Yet it is pointless you guys aren't going to see it yet I can live with that.

Just leave the insults out of it. You should be able to have a debate without calling people everything for no reason. Again, i will defend myself but I don't go low as you guys do and you get all this respect and don't know how to treat people?

I hope you are happy. If you dont like my battles or posts you don't have to comment. If you are so above me then hey move on to other stuff and stop trying to find a person to overzealously stomp on. I don't feel inferior to you or anybody else, you have your way of looking at it and I have mine. So unless you are into throwing the constitution out of here its my right to think as I wish. You are not psychologist or have any degree on the wall that would support anything you had to say about anybody's mental state. I mean really, we all spend time doing this on a forum arguing about who would beat who and NONE of these things are real or exist.

Yet you got a problem with me?

Wow. Think about where we all are in life, we shouldn't even be here debating such things yet this is THAT important to us all and we want to call people anything simply because they don't agree with the same fantasy?

Wow...

You all need something to try to make yourself seem superior to SOMETHING and to the point where surfer can say he HATES a person he doesn't know and knows nothing about me. That is IGNORANCE to sit here and call people what I have been called and let it go and not get told to ease off really is wrong. There are forums that don't allow this kind of stuff. Does that mean I am going anywhere? NO.

I know you pray for me to get banned and if that happens hey it just does but since when do you have a right to say who is right or wrong and that makes you the judge of anybody's life. None of you. You think that you are doing something big by proving somebody wrong on a debate on imagination? Wow, look how far you have come on the scale of evolution. We now hate each other over imagined characters and you take this imagination so seriously you can't enjoy yourself and understand the basic thralls of human nature.

Really. You need this to get your jollies? Hate me then, go ahead, i am not in some corner crying or really worried at all. I do feel bad for a majority of you who come off on me like they do still unjustifyablly. Is there a double standard? Yes of course it is. Yet you had best be glad that there are people like me around because if anything I give the forum quite a bit of life and you guys hang on my every post.

You are addicted to trying to attack me. You just can't help it. You are my fans, you are my followers and you admire me for being the standout that I am. I don't need to be like you to think I am intelligent or need your approval. I just beyond your petty low level attempts. You can't help calling people childish names, to think that some of you here are ADULTS and do this it just amazing.

What is in a name? Nothing. This is why I don't stop. Call me out, curse at me, say funny names or whatever yet dude you aren't good enough to break my spirit or make me feel like I am nobody. You just aren't that good. And again, you have a right to see it your way and I have the same right. So hey, if you got to grit your teeth and hate me or dislike me for this then it shows how little your world actually is.

Enjoy yourself. And I will continue to write.

(Note I didn't use any slurs anything calling anybody out of their name and I did not curse, lets seem some of you highly intelligent beings here do that?)

#31 Nova Force Nova

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Posted 05 March 2012 - 04:13 PM

"You are not psychologist or have any degree on the wall that would support anything you had to say about anybody's mental state."

Ignoring your very bad(like the level of a third grader in elementary) grammar(which does confirm your stupidity), you seem to pretend to know me and then you say no one here knows each other. Are you a moron and a hypocrite?

Just go back and re-learn the stuff you should have learned the first time.

Oh and btw...one of my minors will be in psychology and I know my stuff. You are an idiot.

"And that's the bottom line, because Stone Cold said so."



#32 kainboa

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Posted 05 March 2012 - 06:00 PM

snip


You know, in that massive post, you never once actually countered methos points.

It's fairly simple, if Cooler is superior to Black Adam, as you clearly believe, then it shouldn't be very hard to provide some proof ot that superiority.

So far, all of the points that have been brought up about Black Adam, are stuff that have been given proof of in various other threads, and are thus accepted as fact.

however, your claims about Cooler, amongst them him being faster than light, have been debunked as not true (instant transmission is teleportation, as stated by Goku, not regular travel, in case you had forgotten and moving faster than the eye can see is not faster than light, a bullet moves faster than you can see, and it is considerabely slower than light.)

#33 sirmethos

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Posted 06 March 2012 - 02:22 AM

-snip-


-sigh-

I'll leave the inane rambling, and just address the few points you actually brought up.


"You don't understand the DBZ series because you are fully in support of comics characters."

Not true. I used to be a big time DBZ fan, and own all of the manga. I am well aware of the capabilities of the DBZ characters, but unlike others, I am also well aware of their limitations.

I don't support any character based on which universe/company he/she is from, I support whoever is more likely to win the match. In this fight, that character is Black Adam, due to far superior capabilities.


"You aren't master of the universe to know all things."

Very true, and I have never claimed to be. In fact, I have said several times, that I am always willing to be convinced to the other side of the debate, if the other side can provide sufficient evidence to support their arguments. Something, I might add, that you have failed to do here.


"Cooler is on black adam's level and you guys can keep your insults to yourself.

1. No, Cooler is not on Black Adam's level. Black Adam's speed, durability and versatility are far superior, and through his magic, his raw power is far superior as well. The only point that might be contested, is his raw strength. The only point where Cooler is superior, is his fighting skills.

and 2. I haven't purposely insulted you at any point. Quite the contrary, I have, so far in this debate, been considerably more polite than I usually am.


"You see no need to just agree to disagree."

That's true, because to "agree to disagree", I would have to agree that there is a chance of the other side being right. I have listed various facts, that plain shows Black Adam as being the superior in this particular fight. Namely that he has speed, so far beyond Cooler's, that Cooler can never hope to keep up with(to put it mildly), that his durability is far beyond Cooler's, and that he has the raw strength to, in concert with his speed, easily smash Cooler to a pulp. These are things where you have provided no evidence, of any kind, to the contrary.


"You can't understand the scope of power of DBZ you just don't."

Not true. Again, I own all of the DBZ manga, and have read all of them several times. I used to be a huge DBZ fan.


"A man can zap himself to a planet in mere seconds but..that's not light speed?"

No, that's teleportation(I assume you are referring to Instant Transmission). Being able to move from Point A to Point B, instantly, is absolutely useless, if you still can't move fast enough to land a hit on your opponent, before he has pummeled you into a bloody paste. Which is the case with Cooler and Black Adam.


"Goku (even though he's not in this battle) could go to other planets like that with a thought. Black Adam can't do that."

That's true, Black Adam is not a teleporter, but what does that have to do with anything? Goku could teleport from the other end of the galaxy, appearing right behind Black Adam, and due to Adam's superior speed, Goku would be pummeled into the ground before he could even lift his hand to launch a punch. Again, Black Adam is a LOT faster than the speed of light. Goku(and all of the DBZ characters for that matter), are slower than the Speed of Light.

The best speed feat in DBZ, Gotenks circling the earth 5 times, in 3-5 seconds, is considerably slower than the speed of light. To quickly do the math so you can follow it. The length of the equator is 40.000 kilometers. To move that distance 5 times in 3 seconds(to give the maximum speed). calculating it in Km/H. 1 time, in 1 hour. is 40.000 Km/H. x 60(to get the speed for one minute) = 2.400.000 Km/H. x 60(to get the speed for one second) =144.000.000 Km/H. then we divide by 3(because he did it in 3 seconds, not 1) = 48.000.000 Km/H. now, we multiply by 5(because he did it 5 times in that amount of time). = 240.000.000 Km/H

To give you something to compare with. The speed of sound is 1236 Km/H(Gotenks is moving roughly 194174 times faster than the speed of sound), and the speed of Light is 1.079.252.848,8 Km/H. The Speed of light, is roughly 4.5 times faster than Gotenks' speed.



"Note I didn't use any slurs anything calling anybody out of their name and I did not curse, lets seem some of you highly intelligent beings here do that?"

I haven't used any slurs, I haven't cursed and I haven't purposely insulted anyone. Done and done.

What I have done, is address every single point, relevant to the debate, that you have brought up. Let's see you do that.

#34 force_echo

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Posted 06 March 2012 - 09:59 AM

Anu, people don't insult you because you disagree with them, or because you're intellectually superior to them (as you would like to think). People insult you because you're a dumbass.

#35 Z451

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Posted 06 March 2012 - 11:05 AM

^This.

#36 Guest_anu_*

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 09:44 AM

Man people do love cussing and saying whatever, I wont go point for point on this because I have already brought out points that to me are obvious that DBZ characters are capable of speeds that Black Adam could do. If you own the manga and all of that and don't realize how powerful even super saiyan is then you just can't see it. Fine I am ok with that. You just don't regardless of what you say you know.

Really, the hulk has LIMITLESS strength but he can't beat Superman in a brawl. Say it again, a person with LIMITLESS STRENGTH can go toe to toe with ANYBODY BUT SUPERMAN??? LIMITLESS STRENGTH MEANS HE COULD REACH OVER 1 MILLION TONS OF STRENGTH??? it has even been said on here that Supes power

Dude that puts him on a level with cosmic gods like the celestials...exactly how much does a planet weigh if you have that estimation put it on here and you are going to say that levels of power in DBZ don't even equate to someone on a Super Saiyan level or even 50,000 units in power level would equate to being strong enough to lift 25 tons? I am just making a comparison here...show me what you mean then.

Yet the madder he gets the stronger he gets? Do you guys realize that he DOES have a limit on how strong he can get?

I mean just HOW MAD is actually somebody supposed to be able to get so mad that hulk pops a vein or turns another color himself, come on..anger is anger yet how is that equating to limitless physical strength and just because marvel comics says so you buy into that to where someone like Cooler could never be physically srong as the Hulk?

He is SO mad he could lift an entire planet?

You go from class 100 (able to lift, press 100 tons) to being able to lift well over a million or MILLIONS of tons simply because of your anger? It is just unrealistic to think that Hulk would be able to get THAT mad. Yet' he's the hulk and he can't even breathe in space. Cooler can reach levels of power like that as you know that their levels of physical strength increase with the level of their power, they battle with energy attacks primarily so you don't think they aren't stronger than the hulk when at 1 million power level?

What do you equate the ranking of a DBZ power level to strength levels then? Such as what level would someone like cooler have to be according to you to at least be Class 100 strength because with your equations, the Hulk, Black Adam and Superman can all reach the same levels of strength when the Hulk would be at the lowest level of that spectrum. What about powering up?

I am sure you know that black adam, superman, hulk all don't reach their levels of power as FAST as Cooler or Goku or the DBZ characters would. They can go from 0 to Super Saiyan in a fraction of a second, therefore able to reach a higher level of power than Black Adam, Hulk or Superman in a fight gaining the upper hand before they would be able to get to that level, this would be an advantage in power itself. This would never give Cooler a chance to harm black adam before he could harm him on the same level? Is that what you are saying?

You also know that when DBZ characters power up they do indeed shake planets and in the case of Super Buu tear down dimensional barriers with their power, Black Adam can not do that or can he?

yeah i know that does't have anything to do with this battle but I am using that to show how the reasoning goes with people around here. The Legendary Super Saiyan Brolly oh, he couldn't beat Black Adam? Why doesn't everybody remember that according to DBZ lore they are already fighting at speeds WAY above most BEINGS ability to see them move. Yet that does not sink in to anybody.

A character does not have to say " I can move at the speed of light". They have that power. Yes there may be some staunch differences in durability yet at Super Saiyan 4 Goku is on the level of GOD the gods of the universe the KAIOS were admitting that he was way beyond them on that level.

Yeah this is about Cooler but Goku when he powered up SHOOK HEAVEN EARTH and the realm of HELL, they felt it through the universe itself, power like that being drawn in from other galaxies and a DBZ character STILL is not on the level of a black adam or superman??

Makes no sense to me.

Cooler himself as I mentioned before was already beyond super saiyan level at the time or should have been as he was stronger than freezer was, and according to what Goku said, a LOT more powerful, take that increase and if you look at time given in the arc we don't know how much stronger Goku was at the time hence why he beat him. Sorry, say whatever but Cooler, even if he coudn't survive being thrown in the sun would not be dominated in speed by Cooler. Cooler when he died was knocked thousands of miles...not just a few THOUSANDS of miles into a STAR from Goku's blast, knocked OUT of earths orbit yet that isn't even on the par of strength with Black Adam?

Has black adam ever hit anybody and knocked them out of orbit?

Has he ever formed any ball of energy that could destroy a planet that if he punched it would destroy him? Why do you think Goku did not punch the power ball thrown by Cooler? Because it would explode if he did and if Black Adam did so it would more than likely destroy him or knock him out.

Should that have happened Cooler would have the upper hand and could attempt to kill him while he was out.

Do you know how much explosive force it would take to explode a planet?

So you are saying a planet could explode via the power of Cooler and if Black Adam was there he would wouldn't have a scratch, not even knock him out? You are saying he is that powerful?

Freezer destroyed planet vegeta with ONE FINGER from the power ball he created and Cooler could do so faster and Freezer was not even near his peak power level then and wiped out a planet so you are saying Black Adam fighting somebody with a 500,000 power level at the time would be so fast and so strong that even Freezer couldn't hit him?

What is your equivalient of exactly how fast Super Speed is? Obviously it only exists when Superman or Black Adam are using it because being knocked to a star by a power blast in seconds seems beyond anything that is just ...well fast. Super speed means what in your definition then? How many miles per hour to YOU is Super Speed?

Obviously Super speed means something different in different universes because in a comic book universe there is an obvious disconnect in judging what speed is or is not, so you are saying that there can not be two definitions because it is a character that you believe is superior no matter what?

So according to you Cooler would have no chance against somebody like Darkseid who in the movie Superman/Batman vs Apocalypse where Supergirl showed up put his omega beams on both of them and didn't harm either of them nor knock them into orbit after any punch he hit them with..cooler would be disintegrated easily by such a power.. you are saying that?


Are you also saying that Cooler who is SS1 level at LEAST could be killed if shot from a bullet?

You are also implying that Cooler did not know Instant Transmission BEFORE he was turned to META Cooler? Remember he said, you can do that too, which to me means he KNEW how to do it when he fought Goku the first time which again should be equated with light speed? You still say it is not...thats wrong.

You insinuate that Cooler can not fight during Instant Transmission? You are saying that while in transport he can not punch or hit anything?

Instant Transmission allows you to be anywhere at any second you want and you are saying Black Adam could still react faster than that when after going toe to toe with Superman showed no use of such reaction time in yet another DC movie?

#37 Guest_anu_*

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 10:16 AM

Anu, people don't insult you because you disagree with them, or because you're intellectually superior to them (as you would like to think). People insult you because you're a dumbass.



Turn around and look at yourself before you make claims you can't prove. I never said I was superior to anyone yet you need to stoop to that level to make yourself feel better so go ahead, insult is all you can do and that doesn't support or prove your intelligence.You are the one throwing immaturity at people and you have nothing better to do? You feel better now? Why not go up to someone in real life and say that and watch what happens...i am sure that you would feel justified getting a real challenge would you not? Again you are the adult or teen hanging out on a forum and take it that serious...

#38 Guest_anu_*

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 10:23 AM

You know, in that massive post, you never once actually countered methos points.

It's fairly simple, if Cooler is superior to Black Adam, as you clearly believe, then it shouldn't be very hard to provide some proof ot that superiority.

So far, all of the points that have been brought up about Black Adam, are stuff that have been given proof of in various other threads, and are thus accepted as fact.

however, your claims about Cooler, amongst them him being faster than light, have been debunked as not true (instant transmission is teleportation, as stated by Goku, not regular travel, in case you had forgotten and moving faster than the eye can see is not faster than light, a bullet moves faster than you can see, and it is considerabely slower than light.)



These things are only matters of OPINION based on their belief that the characters are superior no matter what. So no matter what I say or what examples as given in another post they will continually go back to how they don't agree on what light speed is or is not, with that against me it won't make a difference.

I have given examples posed in questions yet they are the ones who have yet to show their logic in why they are right based on nothing more than what they believe to be true just as I. Yet these guys are putting BA on the level of a GOD to the point where nothing DBZ can do can even HURT him and with a view like that you are not gonna convince anybody, they can not make any true description of just how strong in physical power DBZ power levels are yet these guys can get thrown through mountains, fly to planets in seconds, destroy planets, move at speeds nobody can see yet this is still not superior or on a level with a guy like superman for example who can't do anything but be impervious to harm and move really fast. he can not throw energy blasts outside of heat vision and somebody like Cooler has a mastery of manipulating energy...yet this still means nothign because it's Black Adam...or Superman...

#39 Guest_anu_*

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 10:27 AM

"You are not psychologist or have any degree on the wall that would support anything you had to say about anybody's mental state."

Ignoring your very bad(like the level of a third grader in elementary) grammar(which does confirm your stupidity), you seem to pretend to know me and then you say no one here knows each other. Are you a moron and a hypocrite?

Just go back and re-learn the stuff you should have learned the first time.

Oh and btw...one of my minors will be in psychology and I know my stuff. You are an idiot.

"And that's the bottom line, because Stone Cold said so."



A minor is not a degree and you don't have it yet so that still doesn't give you a right to say you are an authority on anything, you only know what someone else has told you and have NO real application of it. Once you get your degree scan it and post it for the world to see so we believe you, anybody can say anything and claim anything..even you and your supposed level of intelligence. You get your degree and enjoy it and find better things to do in your study time but be on lower levels and call people out of their name...you feel better now?

#40 Nova Force Nova

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 10:39 AM

I don't do this to feel better, I do this to help you with your rampant stupidity. I'm serious, I read over everything you posted and it doesn't take a shrink to know you have absolutely no idea wtf you're talking about.




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