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[Callisto]

Defeat among the family of King Cold is unheard of. Lord Cooler, having lived through his defeat of Superman as Superman is not a being that wishes to kill anyone was spared. A lot has happened though as the client, who wanted earth is highly displeased there are factors of a reputation to uphold. There has never been a planet that King Cold has been hired to get that he has not acquired for a client. Needless to say he is far from happy about this. Cooler is not happy about this at all either as he has his own reputation as being the most powerful being in the universe. His rage has taken over him and in the aftermath of losing to Superman, Cooler has been more dangerous than ever. His henchmen have been even more afraid of him, he has killed his own soldiers for even mentioning the name of Superman. If you had missed the first encounter, Cooler was defeated by Superman and yes, this reality allows a being such as Cooler to exist along beings such as Superman and villians from his world. This is a change in reality that you may not have been accustomed to and while this may not be the standard continuation of a story, this story indeed does continue. Cooler traveled to earth to process it for a client as that is what he does. He was stopped by Superman as Superman was too much for him and in defeat was not able to accept it. So should this be your first time witnessing this, enjoy as this takes an eerie part 2 with an unexpected change...

What truly led to Cooler returning? Let us take you back....this is after the battle with Superman...

Aboard the ship of King Cold, Cooler has been called to a meeting with his father. His father looks upon his son with disbelief....his back turned to him as his large horned form stares out into space. He turns slowly and his thick brow over his eyes tells the story to Cooler before he says anything. King Cold's huge fist clenches as the darkness within him begins to rise and his anger darts forth from his armored form..

KC: You DARE allow our reputation to be tarnished? You have dirtied our pride!

LC: Father I..

KC: Earth will be taken...we must remain the strongest family in the universe..no go and do not fail me again..

LC: As you wish King Cold...

Disgruntled and angry, Cooler returns to his ship and returns to his throne..his men quake in their boots awaiting his next order..

LC: Plot a course for earth...NOW!

His ship turns in the ether of space and heads towards earth. Lord Cooler has a fire of revenge and death inside of him as seeing the anger in the eyes of his father chilled even him to the bone. He sits there with reminder of his father's displeasure in his mind. Lord Cooler knows he is the strongest and has never had a defeat such as this.

LC: I will destroy that being and reclaim my position as the strongest in the universe and destroy and claim earth!!

His hand closes around the glass and shatters it as the wine spills...

Meanwhile at least a day later on earth...we join superman as he is going through yet another battle of an entirely different sort. It would seem that Black Adam, a being who believes himself roughly the equal of Superman has grown tired of defeats at his hands and has decided to take things to another level and end Superman himself as well. Superman has acquired many enemies over the years and Black Adam is no stranger to Superman's power. Lex Luthor has a hand in this one as he has given Black Adam some kryptonite and we are here now as Black Adam has weakened Superman with it and finally sees victory within his grasp.

BA: You, who felt yourself superior to me has finally fallen...with this substance I can finally end you.

Black Adam lifts superman up by his costume by the throat in his grip and holds him up as he is about to hit him a final time, laughing now in his victory. He has no idea that Cooler's ship has arrived and is hovering over the city and in seeing this Cooler has already made his way to the scene. He has once again transformed to his most powerful form in anticipation of his battle with Superman. It would seem that Cooler has arrived right on time to stop this from happening. Cooler flies from his ship as fast as he can determined to be the one to kill his foe as this honor belongs to him!

BA: Now....

Black Adam drops Superman who is out cold from the exposure to Kryptonite and feels the impact of an energy blast to the back from Cooler! Black Adam gets knocked across the ground and rolls over as his back smokes from the blast. Black Adam rises, his eyes now burning with hatred for this interolper who would are interefere at a moment of victory!! His teeth grit, his face now twisted into a snarl! He looks upon his armored attacker, confused by his appearance as he is rather large and has white and purple markings. Nothing Black Adam has seen before.

BA: Who are you!!?

LC: I am Lord Cooler, the strongest in the universe and I can not let you kill him, that is my job.

BA: What? What difference does it make who kills him? He's a problem to me and though I don't know who you are obviously a problem to you, so if he's dead then we both benefit! You attacked me for no reason!

LC: I do not care for your sentiments, I am here to extinquish all life on this planet and destroy Superman and its a matter of pride and honor of my family, that is why I attacked you, he's mine to destroy and you are no ally of mine!

BA: You are a fool, whatever you are and you won't destroy anything as this goes against MY plans! You are in my way now and attacking me will not be forgiven!

LC: I care not for lesser beings or anyone on this planet, you are below me and if you are attempting to stop me from my goal then I shall kill you! You are nothing to me!

BA: You address one who has the powers of the gods! You do not know what you have done.

Black Adam's eyes narrow and they hone in on his opponent! His muscles tense under his costume, the back singed and his lightning bolt on the front showing prominently. He stands and takes one last look at his fallen foe Superman and though seconds away from finishing him off, he now has to battle this usurper to his throne of victory and that can't be allowed. Black Adam closes his fist and looks up as he takes off full speed into the sky to battle Cooler!!! Cooler takes off towards him as well as the two fly at dazzling speed towards one another to collide with an impact that will surely burn the sky itself!!!

BA: You will pay DEARLY!!!!

LC: You will DIE!!!!!

(who wins?)

[sirmethos]

Black Adam is stronger, a lot faster, more durable, he has the advantage of knowing his opponents abilities while Cooler doesn't know about Adam's, he has far more stamina, a LOT more experience, and more raw power.

Cooler would lose to Adam, even worse than he did against Superman.

[Darksaiyajin345]

The only DB characters that I can think of that could potentially beat Adam handily are the elderly Goku and Vegeta that Toriyama describes in the DBO timeline.
Cooler loses the fact that the World Trade Organization seems to want the planet really bad he probably won't be throwing out a Star buster anytime soon and will get pummeled.

[bigballerju]

Cooler simply doesn't have the power it takes to defeat Black Adam. Adam wins.

[Darksaiyajin345]

<sub>What exactly does it take to defeat Black Adam then? I think if DBZ characters were shown to have more of a ranking that was similar to Marvel and DC most people would be a bit more fair I think in judging these guys. So Black Adam can't beat Superman yet is supposed to be roughly his equal as far as his powers. Cooler can blast through nearly anything with his powers and most people i don't think have read exactly what he CAN do, yet because it's not called super speed in DBZ or light speed in DBZ it doesn't compute to someone like Cooler being on par with Black Adam? I dunno, sounds like Bias simply because of popularity of the character.
We don't know how strong cooler is for example in equation of Tons ..do we know this about black adam?

We don't know really how fast Cooler can move though he can teleport, instant transmission and what not yet according to everyone thats STILL not as fast as Black Adam could move?

I think honestly judging a character like this depends on how people have seen them in the series and if it were Cooler lifting up huge things or actually saying ' i can move at light speed" then it may be seen differently.</sub>

Trust me if I thought Cooler could win I would say so as far as high end DBZ,Marvel and DC goes Cooler=Fodder
Who could beat Black Adam in DBZ? Well already mentioned a 64 year old Goku and 69 year old Vegeta potentially dead High Tiers,Vegetto maybe.

Cooler doesn't have Shunko Ido until he is absorbed into the Big Gete Star if I remember right plus I have done the math there best speed feat puts the high tier non fusions at relativistic with Vegetto potential being FTL meaning at the end some DBZ chars can tag him but Adam would still have the speed advantage.
Main problem and this goes for all DB characters that are not named Vegetto or Gohan is that they have piss poor stamina since there main weapon (Ki blast) actually uses up there stamina. So they tire out fairly quick compared to people like Black Adam or Superman with Nigh limitless stamina so regardless if ther firepower is better they will get tired fast firing beams that can actually damage people like high tier global heros.

Thats the thing we don't need specifics for this fight since it comes down to that HUGE stamina diffrence were Cooler is tired and useless and Adam isn't.

[sirmethos]

-snip-

I'll respond to this a bit at a time.


"What exactly does it take to defeat Black Adam then?"

Raw superior power or far superior skill(if the power is close to equal).

Black Adam is physically superior to Superman's base level, has 5000 years of experience, and is one of the most powerful sorcerers in the DC universe(though he rarely uses that power, preferring to pummel people down with his superior physical power).


" I think if DBZ characters were shown to have more of a ranking that was similar to Marvel and DC most people would be a bit more fair I think in judging these guys."

Well, that's only partially true. People are generally(with the exception of fanboys) pretty fair in judging the various characters. The problem for the DBZ characters, is that they have simply not shown capabilities that puts them on par with high-end Marvel and DC characters. Which is why they generally end up losing against them.


"So Black Adam can't beat Superman yet is supposed to be roughly his equal as far as his powers."

Actually, without Comics Mechanics, Black Adam would beat Superman in most scenarios.


"Cooler can blast through nearly anything with his powers and most people i don't think have read exactly what he CAN do"

No, Cooler can not "blast through nearly anything".

I am well aware of Cooler's capabilities and limitations, and just like most other DBZ characters, he simply doesn't measure up.


"yet because it's not called super speed in DBZ or light speed in DBZ it doesn't compute to someone like Cooler being on par with Black Adam? I dunno, sounds like Bias simply because of popularity of the character. "

It doesn't have anything to do with what it's called. None of the DBZ characters have shown anything near lightspeed(one of the top speed showings in DBZ, Gotenks flying around the planet, several times in seconds, doesn't even come close to ligthspeed). Which leaves them at a distinct disadvantage against high-end Marvel and DC characters, who are known to be capable of Faster Than Light movement and Reflexes.

If your opponent can move several times faster than you, then you simply aren't going to beat him. You can't beat what you can't hit.


"We don't know how strong cooler is for example in equation of Tons ..do we know this about black adam?"

While it's true that we don't have a specific strength level stated for Cooler, we can calculate his strength, based on his power level, and strength feats shown by other characters.

There is likewise, not a specific strength given for Black Adam, but it is known that he is slightly above Superman's base level. Superman's base strength is stated at 1 million tons.


"We don't know really how fast Cooler can move though he can teleport, instant transmission and what not yet according to everyone thats STILL not as fast as Black Adam could move?"

We know that Cooler is not capable of moving Faster Than Light, which is enough to say that he is not as fast as Black Adam, who is considerably faster than light.


"I think honestly judging a character like this depends on how people have seen them in the series and if it were Cooler lifting up huge things or actually saying ' i can move at light speed" then it may be seen differently. "

Well, that's partially true. People are judging the characters based on the capabilities they have shown(and what other characters have shown). If Cooler(or other DBZ characters) were lifting huge things, then we could calculate a specific strength level for him, which could then be used to say definitively, if he is stronger than Adam or not. Cooler saying that he can move at light speed though, wouldn't change anything if he doesn't actually prove it.

In DBZ, there are no feats of Faster Than Light movement. As already said, one of the top speed feats from DBZ, is far below the speed of light.

[bigballerju]

Oh just to add Black Adam can defeat Superman. It takes Superman and Captain Marvel together to defeat Black Adam in some cases in the past.

[Djgambrell]

The only DB characters that I can think of that could potentially beat Adam handily are the elderly Goku and Vegeta that Toriyama describes in the DBO timeline.
Cooler loses the fact that the World Trade Organization seems to want the planet really bad he probably won't be throwing out a Star buster anytime soon and will get pummeled.

Wait... Do you have DB online?

[Darksaiyajin345]

Wait... Do you have DB online?

Maybe
But no I have played the beta but I don't have it but the timeline toriyama & co made describes very vaguely Goku and Vegeta's final battle.

[Djgambrell]

Maybe
But no I have played the beta but I don't have it but the timeline toriyama & co made describes very vaguely Goku and Vegeta's final battle.

WHERE IS THE F*CKING BETA?! TELL ME DAMN YOU!

[Darksaiyajin345]

WHERE IS THE F*CKING BETA?! TELL ME DAMN YOU!

I'll PM you but I think its closed.

[Shadow Flesh]

I know Sirmethos addressed most the usual DBZ concerns for why Cooler doesn't stack up to Black Adam. But I got some general concerns of my own. Like, how can you truelly say DBZ characters are or aren't faster than light when it's never said in either case.

The Gotenks around the world several times in a few seconds is a really solid feat FOR being as fast or faster than light... if light takes 8 min to reach earth from the sun, and 16 laps around the earth is roughly the same distance. So high tier DBZ is Lightspeed for me (open to persuasion).

A last note that always pesters me with global level heroes, mainly just Superman, is how we can say they have so much durability, speed, and power. But in many MANY cases we see them knocked aside [momentarily, but still] by street level villains, late to react to attacks, and unable to break things that they on another day would dodge or atomize with ease?


But Adam still wins...

[sirmethos]

I know Sirmethos addressed most the usual DBZ concerns for why Cooler doesn't stack up to Black Adam. But I got some general concerns of my own. Like, how can you truelly say DBZ characters are or aren't faster than light when it's never said in either case.

The Gotenks around the world several times in a few seconds is a really solid feat FOR being as fast or faster than light... if light takes 8 min to reach earth from the sun, and 16 laps around the earth is roughly the same distance. So high tier DBZ is Lightspeed for me (open to persuasion).

A last note that always pesters me with global level heroes, mainly just Superman, is how we can say they have so much durability, speed, and power. But in many MANY cases we see them knocked aside [momentarily, but still] by street level villains, late to react to attacks, and unable to break things that they on another day would dodge or atomize with ease?


But Adam still wins...

Not so much, no. The feat of Gotenks circling the planet, puts him considerably below the speed of light(the calculations were done in another thread, i can't be arsed finding it right now).

And since that is one of(if not THE) best feats for Speed in DBZ, that puts the general speed level of DBZ considerably below Light speed.

[force_echo]

Umm. Light can travel around the earth 7 1/2 times in one second. Gotenks went around the Earth once in several seconds. Not the same thing.

[Shadow Flesh]

Not so much, no. The feat of Gotenks circling the planet, puts him considerably below the speed of light(the calculations were done in another thread, i can't be arsed finding it right now).

And since that is one of(if not THE) best feats for Speed in DBZ, that puts the general speed level of DBZ considerably below Light speed.

That works for me. Still feel the FTL speed of others should be questioned but I'll secede that the DBZ-verse's speed is lacking

[Darksaiyajin345]

Not so much, no. The feat of Gotenks circling the planet, puts him considerably below the speed of light(the calculations were done in another thread, i can't be arsed finding it right now).

And since that is one of(if not THE) best feats for Speed in DBZ, that puts the general speed level of DBZ considerably below Light speed.

Actually I did do the calcs for that feat it still pushes the high tiers to at least mid relativistic not considerably below the speed of light.
Also that really isnt the best speed feat Goku out running the explosion Freeza made from ground zero is far more impressive which is why I beleive in the fact that Z characters are capable of burst speed they just can't keep it up for long distances.