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Match 10896 Sagat vs. Deathstroke


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#21 bigballerju

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Posted 24 February 2012 - 11:37 PM

Once again that was Evil Ryu's ending who was a separate character from Ryu in the game. Ryu's story wasn't retconned. Thats why in every adaption of Ryu's story whether comics, manga, or some anime its always been regular Ryu who beat Sagat on his own without the dark power.

#22 Darksaiyajin345

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Posted 25 February 2012 - 12:22 AM

http://streetfighter....com/wiki/Sagat
http://streetfighter...m/wiki/Evil_Ryu
http://streetfighter...ia.com/wiki/Ryu
http://streetfighter.wikia.com/wiki/Satsui_no_Hado
http://streetfighter.wikia.com/wiki/Metsu_Shoryuken
Every single one of these pages disagrees with you.
Anime,Movies and Comics can show whatever they want games plot>>>>>those things face it Ryu has never beat Sagat in a fair fight,

#23 bigballerju

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Posted 25 February 2012 - 12:40 AM

In Street Fighter 4 Ryu fought Sagat before his final match with Seth and remembered the promised rematch. Ryu won hence him going to the final round. It even says so in the wiki link for Ryu. So yeah Ryu has beaten Sagat cleanly.

#24 Darksaiyajin345

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Posted 25 February 2012 - 01:03 AM

In Street Fighter 4 Ryu fought Sagat before his final match with Seth and remembered the promised rematch. Ryu won hence him going to the final round. It even says so in the wiki link for Ryu. So yeah Ryu has beaten Sagat cleanly.

You are right forgot that bit since I have been playing 3rd strike more than IV lately.
Still shows that Sagat is roughly Ryu's equal since they can defeat each other in combat Ken has also defeated Ryu in the past however Ryu is still slightly better than Ken. Ryu said in 3rd Strike that Ryu had a better win record than Ken same can be said for Sagat Ryu can beat him in a clean way but as far as clean wins go Sagat has won without outside interferance more.
(He could have easily beaten Ryu if Ryu didnt give into the Satsui no Hadou the first time.)
(He also beat Ryu when Ryu was infused with Psycho Power.)
(Ryu beat Sagat without any power ups once in IV)
So it still stands that Sagat is on par with a raw Ryu if slightly better.

#25 bigballerju

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Posted 25 February 2012 - 01:28 AM

Sagat beat Ryu who wasn't himself and was being controlled by the psycho power so that doesn't even count. No Sagat couldn't have easily beat Ryu because its not like he owned Ryu the first time. Yes he would have won but Ryu gave in to the Satsui no Hadou and beat him. The fact remains Sagat has never really beaten Ryu while Ryu has beaten Sagat with and without the Satsui no Hadou.

So no Sagat is not better then Ryu because he has never truly beaten Ryu. Sagat got his rematch in Street Fighter 4 and Ryu still beat him clean.

#26 DSkillz

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Posted 25 February 2012 - 01:46 AM

Better effort in making a story, megarock, but both Slade and Sagat are pretty out of character.

And yeah, DS's got this. He's stronger, quicker, faster thinker, armored, and much better armed than Sagat.

#27 Darksaiyajin345

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Posted 25 February 2012 - 01:55 AM

The Psycho power made Ryu stronger this is literally like saying if some one beat Evil Ryu it doesn't mean they can't beat regular Ryu since he "wouldn't be himself." Ryu was blood lusted its more impressive then beating a sound Ryu (Once again Bison confirms the Satsui no Hadou to be baisicly the same as Psycho power only stronger.)
Ryu was beat up enough for Sagat to offer a hand to help him up. The wiki even says.
Quote "Sagat nearly beats Ryu into unconsciousness." Sounds like owning at it's finest.
The true fact remains Ryu without the Satsui no Hadou was decimated by Sagat in Street Fighter 1 who also later defeated a Ryu who was powered up (Bolded since you don't get that part.) by Psycho power in Alpha 3 and Ryu didn't beat Sagat in a fair fight until IV.

(To show I don't think Sagat can 100% slaughter DS it will be a hard fight for both just feel Sagat and SF in general is being underestimated.)
Deathstroke could still create a plan and with weapons he has the edge but he is still physically outmatched it's his mind and the fact that the SFverse has almost no solid speed feats (A problem with Street Fighter if your name isn't Akuma you have no feats though Juri has a nice one in the SSF4 movie.) that saves him in this fight.

#28 sirmethos

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Posted 25 February 2012 - 02:20 AM

In most cases, beating someone who is 'bloodlusted', is considerably less impressive, than beating them when they are calm.

It's only more impressive(or just as impressive) to beat someone who is 'bloodlusted', if there is a considerable difference in the power the person uses(for example, Superman holds back and rarely uses more than a fraction of his power, but doesn't/wouldn't hold back when 'bloodlusted'. in that case, beating a 'bloodlusted' Superman, is considerably more impressive.)


Beating a 'bloodlusted' Batman or Nightwing, just to give an example, would be considerably easier than beating them when they are calm.

#29 Darksaiyajin345

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Posted 25 February 2012 - 02:35 AM

In most cases, beating someone who is 'bloodlusted', is considerably less impressive, than beating them when they are calm.

It's only more impressive(or just as impressive) to beat someone who is 'bloodlusted', if there is a considerable difference in the power the person uses(for example, Superman holds back and rarely uses more than a fraction of his power, but doesn't/wouldn't hold back when 'bloodlusted'. in that case, beating a 'bloodlusted' Superman, is considerably more impressive.)


Beating a 'bloodlusted' Batman or Nightwing, just to give an example, would be considerably easier than beating them when they are calm.


True in most cases but in the Street Fighter Universe if someone like Ryu or Akuma is Bloodlusted (Ken to in Street Fighters many non cannon spin offs and Capcom vs games.) It means tapping into unknown reserves of power such as the Satsui no Hadou or Psycho Power don't get me wrong being calm gives reserves of power as well (The Power of Nothingness.) However you can't tap into that without rejecting the Hadou. Ryu in Alpha 3 had yet to reject the Satsui no Hadou and when one doesn't reject the Hadou they can use it to its fullest.

So if Ryu was bloodlusted in SF IV or III spin offs yeah he would be easier to beat than if he was calm Ryu since he rejected the Hadou and couldn't tap into it or Psycho power so he wouldn't get stronger just angry.

But in SF1-Alpha 3 him with murderous intent is far more dangerous than him calm since the Hadou (Or Psycho power in this case.) would strengthen him far beyond his calm state and even give him new moves (Like the Shun Goku Satsu.)

#30 treacherous

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Posted 25 February 2012 - 10:22 AM

Spam: http://www.electricf...=0

But it's good spam.

#31 bigballerju

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Posted 25 February 2012 - 10:56 AM

Once again its obvious that Ryu being powered by the Psycho Drive doesn't count because Ryu wasn't utlizing the his own skills and wasn't himself. Ryu was just driven by the Psycho Drive and used its power instead of skill because his mind was corrupt with evil.

Hence once again Sagat couldn't beat Ryu when he was using the Satsui no Hadou and he couldn't beat Ryu clean when Ryu wasn't using it.

#32 Darksaiyajin345

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Posted 25 February 2012 - 12:37 PM

Once again its obvious that Ryu being powered by the Psycho Drive doesn't count because Ryu wasn't utlizing the his own skills and wasn't himself. Ryu was just driven by the Psycho Drive and used its power instead of skill because his mind was corrupt with evil.

Hence once again Sagat couldn't beat Ryu when he was using the Satsui no Hadou and he couldn't beat Ryu clean when Ryu wasn't using it.

Dude PLAY THE GAME M.Bison even says Ryu is stronger here is line for line what happens.

Sagat: What is this!!!!! What have you done to Ryu Bison!?!

M.Bison: Hmm...What are you waiting for? Isn't this what you wanted?

M.Bison: I charged Ryu with Psycho Power to make him stronger.

M.Bison: This is everything you could have asked for!

Bison clearly recognizes that Ryu is now stronger than before also during the match Ryu still fights like Ryu.
You are trying to make it sound like Ryu was effectivly insane to the point were he couldn't fight properly no he was simply brainwashed and being controlled by Bison yes he could fight as normal except he would kill Sagat and he was stronger.Of course Sagat can't beat Ryu using the Satsui no Hadou there is a huge diffrence between Street Fighters Mid high tier and High tier.

Fact remains Sagat beat a powered up Ryu.

#33 bigballerju

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Posted 25 February 2012 - 12:52 PM

Pay attention to the storyline yourself. Sagat obviously didn't count that as a win against Ryu because in Street Fighter 2 which is afterwards he still wanted a rematch against Ryu where Ryu was clean and himself.

Ryu was corrupt and under Bison's control hence Sagat having to break it. Fighting someone who is corrupt and mind controlled is not the same as fighting them when they are themselves. If that were the case Sagat would not have wanted a rematch and would have accepted he finally beat Ryu but he didn't.

I am not going to explain this again.

#34 Darksaiyajin345

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Posted 25 February 2012 - 01:12 PM

Pay attention to the storyline yourself. Sagat obviously didn't count that as a win against Ryu because in Street Fighter 2 which is afterwards he still wanted a rematch against Ryu where Ryu was clean and himself.

Ryu was corrupt and under Bison's control hence Sagat having to break it. Fighting someone who is corrupt and mind controlled is not the same as fighting them when they are themselves. If that were the case Sagat would not have wanted a rematch and would have accepted he finally beat Ryu but he didn't.

I am not going to explain this again.

Yes Sagat didn't count that as beating Ryu because he is a honorable warrior that does not change the fact that he beat him.
So he beat him in Physical strength and skill but it "wasn't" Ryu just his strength and skill except cranked up to 11.
Sagat talks about Ryu's inner power which he only unlocks in the non cannon "Ties that Bind" movie and the both agree that he is still not ready for Sagat by the end of Alpha 3 and doesn't become ready until Street Fighter IV so even if Ryu was sane the result would have been no diffrent.

Sagat wanted a rematch because Ryu's potential surpasses the Satsui no Hadou and Psycho power thats the Ryu Sagat wants to fight not Evil Ryu or Psycho Ryu and that is why he wanted a rematch since it would without a shred of doubt mean he is the strongest and why he didn't feel that he beat Ryu it's Sagat's philosophy not that he didn't beat a powered up version of Ryu.

#35 bigballerju

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Posted 25 February 2012 - 02:34 PM

Look the point is Sagat and Ryu had the match to find out would really win to see who was the better fighter in Street Fighter 4. Ryu won that fight.

Now on to this match. Sagat is so outclassed by Slade here physically, experience, and skill that its not even funny.

#36 Darksaiyajin345

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Posted 25 February 2012 - 03:32 PM

At this point I can only assume that the only Street Fighter game you have played is IV

No he really isnt Slade still wins but it is not due to his physical stats its due to his mind and weapons without weapons in a straight Fist a Cuffs fight Sagat would win. I can name weaker SF characters than Sagat that can overpower Slade physically.

#37 bigballerju

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Posted 25 February 2012 - 03:46 PM

Good god are you purposely not paying attention?

1. You said Ryu has never beat Sagat cleanly. You were wrong on that front as Ryu beat Sagat cleanly in Street Fighter 4.

2. We have agreed that Sagat beat Ryu while Ryu was under the control of Bison and his Psycho Drive. However you fail to understand Sagat didn't count that as a actually win against Ryu because he wasn't truly facing Ryu. Thats the reason why in the next few games afterwards Sagat wanted a rematch.

3. Sagat got his rematch in Street Fighter 4 and lost to a clean Ryu.

4. Ryu has beat Sagat with and without the Dark Hadou.

5. Sagat has never really beaten Ryu in the Street Fighter storyline. Thats why currently he realized he needed to leave his obession with defeating Ryu behind to focus on more important things.

Most of this is in the links you even provided.

#38 Darksaiyajin345

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Posted 25 February 2012 - 04:17 PM

Good god are you purposely not paying attention?

2. We have agreed that Sagat beat Ryu while Ryu was under the control of Bison and his Psycho Drive. However you fail to understand Sagat didn't count that as a actually win against Ryu because he wasn't truly facing Ryu. Thats the reason why in the next few games afterwards Sagat wanted a rematch.

5. Sagat has never really beaten Ryu in the Street Fighter storyline. Thats why currently he realized he needed to leave his obession with defeating Ryu behind to focus on more important things.

Really cause you seem to be the one not paying attention

Your number two is really just plain dumb just because Sagat doesn't believe that he beat the real Ryu? He still beat him it's a spiritual thing not a literal thing like you are making it sound it was Ryu's strength and technique only better. If someone is under someones control it doesn't change the fact that he still has all the strength stats and skills that he had before but Sagat's strength and skills were better.

And since your 2 is dumb your bolded 5 holds no ground since he did beat him.

You seem to be twisting the events in Alpha 3 and over glorifing IV to try in downplay Sagat.

#39 Guest_anu_*

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Posted 27 February 2012 - 07:51 AM

Where did you guys get those scans? I would enjoy reading this if it's online. By the way very good history of all of this. I am not going to comment on the battle because i am just enjoying soaking up all this history of the series.




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