34 replies to this topic

[FoxFingers]

Hi Everyone

I want to discuss making a change to how FPL Matches occur. In retrospect, the system I left the FPL running with was pretty poor. At the time I was focused on just getting the Character Creator and other basics up.

The current system in place creates 40-something matches every couple days to no real point. It generates excess data in the system and the matches are not real interesting.

If you disagree and are finding the current system of random matches with generc scenarios fun and interesting, then please let me know.

What I would like to do is completely end the current random match process and implement matches hand created by users only.

Users will have to take their charcter into the Match Creator™, select an opponent and write a custom scenario for the match. The end result, I imagine, will be fewer matches of higher quality. The Match Creator would work pretty much like the CBUB one, where you would select an opponent for you character. Possibly multiple contenders.

Anyways, let me know your thoughts on this change.

[treacherous]

Transform it and roll out. All my characters are already disabled in anticipation.

[Landon]

I'm totally down with this.

[Updatedude]

Current System:
The current system actually has some merit, especially since it's quite difficult to graduate between ranks (Street to Global to Cosmic). It means that we don't need to focus on matches all the time.

The downside is that with so many matches on such regular intervals, interest in matches can wane over time.

It should also be noted that it is inevitable for most FPL fights to be senseless. We're essentially a writing site, and one way to get ahead is to write creative characters. But creative characters don't always mesh with other creative or even just plain conventional characters. It's not as if we're all creating only superheroes or supervillains.

User Created System:
We actually had a bit of this way back when. It was the out of league matches. I think things will probably be much like how that was.

The thing is, having user created matches wouldn't mean we'd get relevant match ups. It'd just mean that some characters are going to be punching bags. And match ups between strong characters wouldn't happen until it becomes a last resort. Again, the FPL doesn't have a theme going for match ups to make sense. So even if strong characters meet up, it wouldn't necessarily make sense or be in context.

Under the current "immortal" system, I think we're better off with the current Automated system.

Admin System:
I think the FPL actually worked best when we had an admin set up the matches, that way, there were the random match ups, but we'd also have the occasional contextual battles. But because characters are immortal and matches now have to occur regularly to compensate for this (immortality), it might be argued that it's not viable to get a guy to set up regular matches for an ever growing roster.

So my suggestion would be the elimination of immortality. Let's make it so characters can die again. Or maybe they get "retired" after 3 losses. If they "unretire", their win/loss resets. Under such a system, the Admin System becomes viable. Also, the requirements for hitting Global and then Cosmic can be loosened. This doesn't mean that it'll be super easy to become Global or Cosmic though. If anyone remembers the old FPL, they'll remember that it was actually pretty tough to graduate from the undercards to the elims to the ME.

I'm not suggesting a total ovehaul back to the old system. That's just too much work for too few returns. The main "tweaks" I'm suggesting is the aforementioned "auto-retirement" and the win/loss reset. We can see how that goes before tweaking the requirements for Global/Cosmic.

[deojusto]

Part of me likes this idea because it would make matches more than just something to scroll through and they'd actually have some relevance. I think the matches have gone from being the number one attraction on the FPL to being an afterthought because of the lack of relevancy. User created matches would make every match unique, and allow match-ups that have some plot rather than happenstance. There'd also probably be fewer matches just because of user ambivalence and occasional inability to get to the site, which is probably a good thing.

After reading Updatedude/Gig's review I agree with some of what he says, but am still more in favor for this new change then a rehash of the old-old system. While I'm not super fond of the current 'immortality' of characters and there is something to be said of the efficiency of mediocrity removal in 3 strikes and your out, characters today aren't truly immortal. They get disabled upon loss of 15 points, and while for a lot of characters this means they can hover just around 100 for a loooong time, they eventually will meet their end. Such was the case with The Blind Bandit for example.

However in a user created environment these poorly written characters may be less of a problem because even if you don't like them you don't have to see them every week, they wouldn't be forced into a match. Their creator may try to push them into matches but if they were truly bad they'd lose those and either get disabled, or the user would leave the site bored as many do leaving the character to be ignored by all.

I also somewhat oppose the admin run system, because for match relevancy it doesn't add as much as the user created set-up, unless the admin is going to write a set-up for every match he/she creates. Even if you cull the list of characters down, that's still a big order. Without a set-up, to those of us outside of the admin system the matches would still appear random, and not any more interesting.

However I do agree that turning some characters into punching bags may be an issue. But I think it is worth the price of being able to write set-ups. Perhaps a solution could be to limit the characters range of opponents within 75 points below themselves and anywhere above themselves if they wish to create the match. This could be made either by computer code, or simply by making it a common courtesy of the site. I think people can be trusted to not pick on people, and if anyone crosses a line they can be called out on it on the comments section of the fight.

[Pseudonym]

I'm scared that if we start a user-created match system some characters will become punching bags, and also no one will use the most interesting characters for fear of losing the match. For instance, I love the character CC, but in a user-created system, I would never write CC vs Wraith because I could lose and then I put all of my time and effort into losing points for myself and gaining points for Ivan.

If it's going to be user-created, I think we would need writer-ratings, so that writers who write interesting stories are rewarded with Global and Cosmic status. Otherwise, everyone's gonna be signing up to write [MyCharacter] vs Lee Chong - And that's a much less interesting rewarding situation for all of us. That way, I won't be scared to toss Unicorn Boy is a story of mine.

I do agree that the fights aren't really the main attraction of the FPL anymore, rarely does any match get more than five comments. I think the way to fix that would be tournaments, maybe? A yearly Main Event where the best of the best characters written that year are thrown against each other. In the comments, creators will fight for their characters by writing fics and maybe impassioned defenses. Tournaments would be fun, if, difficult to implement.

[deojusto]

I'm scared that if we start a user-created match system some characters will become punching bags, and also no one will use the most interesting characters for fear of losing the match. For instance, I love the character CC, but in a user-created system, I would never write CC vs Wraith because I could lose and then I put all of my time and effort into losing points for myself and gaining points for Ivan.

If it's going to be user-created, I think we would need writer-ratings, so that writers who write interesting stories are rewarded with Global and Cosmic status. Otherwise, everyone's gonna be signing up to write [MyCharacter] vs Lee Chong - And that's a much less interesting rewarding situation for all of us. That way, I won't be scared to toss Unicorn Boy is a story of mine.

I do agree that the fights aren't really the main attraction of the FPL anymore, rarely does any match get more than five comments. I think the way to fix that would be tournaments, maybe? A yearly Main Event where the best of the best characters written that year are thrown against each other. In the comments, creators will fight for their characters by writing fics and maybe impassioned defenses. Tournaments would be fun, if, difficult to implement.

I disagree. No one wants to fight Lee Chong. Ever. Even if given the option to, I doubt any serious writer would fight him just for the possibility of an easy win, because even if you win, you still lose. Also I'll make fun of you for it.

As for fear that Wraith and CC would never meet under the new system, well, they ain't gonna be meeting in the current system either, so I don't get why this is a reason to not make the change. If you don't want to fight guys way above your point level you don't have to. But your not the only person making matches. The guys at the top can still create their own matches so nobody's getting ignored, plus it won't be Serif vs Marcellus every single week. And not everyone will only fight within their level. I would have Becki and Helenas tag-team Unicorn Boy and Piranha Girl, knowing full well there is a overwhelming chance I will lose, if I thought I could write a cool enough story to go along with it. If I lose then I lose a couple of points, not a lot because the points you get would still be based on the discrepancy of levels between characters.

If you wanted to make a tournament under the new system you still could. Just pm the people in the tournament, have them set up the matches.

I do like the idea of rating set-ups though.

[FoxFingers]

I think the Punching Bag fear may be a bit overblown. I mean, it will be clear to the other users what the point of the match was... inducing an I See What You Did There response whereby they may be punished with negative votes.

[FoxFingers]

Also, perhaps we should explore the concept that maybe having the Undercards leading to a Main Event was, after-all, a pretty good system.

[Darkender]

The only thing I see being a problem with the user-creator system is that we, as FPLers, are not known for our consistency or activity. I think if the matches were dependent on us there would be like 3 matches a week, and 5 at most on a good week. I like the idea of making matches, but I don't think we should drop the randomized matches. I think a mixing of both would be best, if that's possible.

Also, I think the undercard, main event matches are a good idea as well.

[FoxFingers]

The only thing I see being a problem with the user-creator system is that we, as FPLers, are not known for our consistency or activity. I think if the matches were dependent on us there would be like 3 matches a week, and 5 at most on a good week.

I feel I would really rather follow three to five good matches a week, as you said. With maybe some comments and a set-up and some participation - who knows, even a flame war.

Honestly, the Fourty randoms nobody really cares about is not something I can follow, and not something I'd return to visit. But that's just me.

Addendum: I accept that in the old days the matches were pretty much random also. However, the Kill Floor aspect whereby your character might well be unceremoniously deleted right out of the system after a match at least lent an element of suspense as you climbed the ladder.

[treacherous]

DO IT! JUST DO IT! YOU ARE THE ONE THAT CAN DO IT! SHAKE THESE BOYS UP!!

[FoxFingers]

DO IT! JUST DO IT! YOU ARE THE ONE THAT CAN DO IT! SHAKE THESE BOYS UP!!

By gum I'm gonna do it! ETA - this weekend

[treacherous]

Heck yeah. I knew he could do it. This guy!

[FoxFingers]

The FPL Match Creator is coming along well.

I am liking taking my character into the Match Builder and choosing an opponent. I think this is going to be a good thing.

[sirmethos]

From what I can see, having user created matches also creates an opening for CBUB'ers to slowly slip into the FPL.

CBUB'ers are used to writing matches between characters, and being able to do the same in FPl, is an easy way to get in.

Some of the more talented writers(G4, Rakai, etc.), might not, initially, be interested in creating their own characters, but could still be interested in writing matches for original characters. Especially when those matches get much more in terms of helpful critique, than the matches they create on the CBUB.

Once the "user created matches" system is up and running, I would definitely recommend advertising it on the CBUB side of the forum, or sending PMs to some of the top CBUB writers.

[Darkender]

I'm scared.

[treacherous]

I love change.

[FoxFingers]

Have the FPL Match Builder working. I've taken both the CBUB and FPL offline while I work on re-doing how match pages are built.

I will be having the entirety of the match simply be a Forum post instead of having matches be a strange hybrid of a webpage showing the forums through a window.

[FoxFingers]

Maintenance is complete. Site is available.

Changes made for the 2012.02.26 release are noted in the pinned Website Release Notes thread.

http://www.electricf...showtopic=24969

If any issues are found when creating matches please post about them on the Bug Board so I can look into them.

Thanks!