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Match 10847 Batman vs. Black Panther


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#41 MarvelFan15

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Posted 20 February 2012 - 12:54 PM

T'Challa is only stated as being among the 8 most intelligent, not the top 5.


T'Challa himself stated that he's number eight on the list, which would clash with Banner's theory. I'm looking for the scan, but I can't seem to locate it.

#42 xman4life

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Posted 20 February 2012 - 01:28 PM

Sirmethos either way you naming Sinister, The High Evolutionary, Apocalypse is m00t to say the least. That "List" has been stated various times so to try to add people on the list is laughable to say the least. These people your talking aren't just walking around. Some are thought to be dead, some aren't as known and because of how evil they are their theories are mocked and laughed at(sinister).

These are my theories why these people aren't on the list

Magneto-Former terrorist and still not trusted generally. He has a broad scope of intelligence when it comes to how his powers are effected(the electromagnetic spectrum) but compared to Dr. Nemesis he is a nobody.

Sinister-An evil, corrupt, mad scientist with wild theories about genetics, and biology. He is laughed at and simply overlooked and maybe even thought to be dead.

Apocalypse-An evil being, over a thousand years old, who is immortal, and was charged by ancient aliens to protect evolution. He is thought to be gone and wouldn't be considered on the list due to his theories and his character.

The High Evolutionary-Same as sinister

The Mad Thinker-Evil scientist with wild theories as well. Laughed at, thought to be dead or just simply passed over.

Valeria-she may be stated as smarter than her father which would put her on the list.....BUT she is a child and wouldn't be looked at seriously.

Now before you go into the whole "but Cho is young also" Cho is older and have proven himself time and time again to the smartest people in the world is why they put him on the list. If I'm not mistaken Valeria doesn't show her intelligence to hardly anyone because she keeps it a secret. Cho has helped saved the world a couple of times. Valeria helps more behind the scenes with her brother which is why most people don't know enough about her to put her on the list.

#43 sirmethos

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Posted 20 February 2012 - 02:03 PM

Actually, 'the list' has never been shown by Marvel(as I already said). They have only made mentions about specific people(like Cho and T'Challa being in the top 8, and Banner being the most intelligent on the planet).

Thus, any actual list, is fan made.

And again, if you are including Tony Stark on a current list, then you have no reason to exclude the High Evolutionary. Both are very much alive and both have intelligence that is augmented by their own inventions.


Also, being evil has nothing to do with Intelligence. Dr. Doom is on the list, 'nuff said.

#44 corvette1710

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Posted 20 February 2012 - 06:36 PM

For some reason, XMan4Life thinks that being taken seriously has any effect on one's intelligence.

Sit down, shut up, and listen to the Danish calculators. They're usually right.

#45 Darxeth

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 03:02 AM

Ah, sirmethos, It seems that I agree with you yet again. Just like in the Deathstroke vs Ultimate Captain America topic.

#46 xman4life

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 11:56 AM

My corvette, darexth, and sirmethos. Since we all read comics how is it that you three don't understand the fundemental difference between, the leader, the high evolutionary, sinister and apocalypse?
You tried to compare dr.doom to them which isn't fair. And why not? Dr.doom is known all over as honorable just as namor. Sinister even before the mutation was known as CRAZY, along with mad thinker. Smart yes but more of crazy than anything. Apocalypse is over thousands of years old so you don't think that YEAR upon YEARS didn't make him smarter? Being around from when algebra was made? I think he might have a better graps of it wouldn't you say?
Dr.doom is ruler of a country and yes he goes in and out of being evil he is known for being smart and NOT crazy. He just does what he WANTS to do.

The scientific community of marvel earth don't regard sinister and others listed as nothing more than evil crazy scientist! Point blank. That is why they are not mentioned much in comics(since we all read comics that is true) the last time the high evoloutionary was even mentioned was during decimation and beast met with him because HE IS CRAZY enough and also smart enough to try EVERYTHING. Now if what I'm saying isn't true please tell me but you can't say your comic readers and sit here and tell me there isn't a difference between reed richards and mr. Sinister. Hank pym and the high evoloutionary. T'challa and apocalypse. Cho and the leader! Just by looking at the names side by side draws INSTANT conclusions.

#47 Nova Force Nova

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 11:59 AM

No, you're an idiot, there's nothing different between them, being evil and crazy does not affect intelligence at all.

Also, why the heck are you comparing real names to the monikers? Reed Richards vs Nathaniel Essex, Hank Pym vs Herbert Wyndham, Amadeus Cho vs Samuel Sterns...I draw no conclusions from that.

#48 xman4life

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 12:30 PM

Did you read what I wrote or are you just speaking? I said IN THE SCIENCE COMMUNITY of marvel! I.e people who are world renowned! No one EVER mentions the names sirmethos listed. EVER EVER. You read comics right? When do reed, tony or t'challa casually speak of apocalypse? Let's try sinister? No better yet the leader? Nope never unless they are fighting them. So again I said by the science commuinty as a whole their theories are mocked because they are so far extreme that they are looked at as crazy. You can get mad at me all you like but its hard for me to be in a place like this with "comic readers" and they fail at basic comic knowledge. Sinister shows up once every 5 years, same with apoclalypse, the leader and the high evolutionary. The fact sirmethos mentions hyperstorm and no one said anything shows that favortism runs rampant on this site. This might as well be bad girls club. Lmao. And again if I'm lying about any of my facts say something.

#49 sirmethos

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 12:39 PM

1. Sinister is not regarded as "crazy". Evil, yes, brilliant, yes. But insane? Definitely not.

2. No, being immortal, or thousands of years old, does not make you smarter or more intelligent. It potentially gives you more Knowledge, but it doesn't affect your intelligence.

3. What, exactly, does the opinion of the Science Community, have to do with people's intelligence? That's right, absolutely nothing. We are discussing who are the smartest people on Marvel's earth. Not who are the most respected. You said that Augmented people/people with Augmented intelligence are not part of the list(that was your initial reason for removing Sinister, Apocalypse and the High Evolutionary), then you have to remove Tony Stark as well, since his intelligence has been augmented by his armor since he put on the Extremis. Then you said that being evil removes you from the list(that was the next reason you listed for removing Sinister, among others), then you have to remove Dr. Doom from the list as well. Bottom line is, that being Evil, Immortal(ancient), Crazy, or other random things you come up with, have absolutely nothing to do with a person's intelligence. The most intelligent person on Marvel's earth, is the High Evolutionary, in terms of intelligence, he is far beyond people like Reed Richards, Doom, Banner and Stark. Mr. Sinister is the foremost expert on genetics, genetic engineering and biology. Magneto has created technology that amazes even Reed Richards, Valeria Richards has been directly stated as being smarter than her dad(reed richards), etc. etc. Your 'list' of top 10, is a fan created list, that is easily disputed. Nothing more, nothing less.

#50 Nova Force Nova

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 02:15 PM

For the record, they do speak of them. Frequently.

#51 xman4life

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 02:26 PM

No they do not. Dude those characters are seen in comics once every five years being nice I will say 3 so why would they constantly talk about characters that barely show up? That doesn't even make sense.
They do not constantly talk about them whatsoever. Dude get out of here.

#52 Nova Force Nova

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 02:29 PM

Yes they do. Not my fault you know absolutely nothing about comics for the past 15 years.

#53 xman4life

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 02:38 PM

@sirmethos I did not say because they were evil they couldn't be on the list. Now your lying. I said they are regarded as crazy. ESPECIALLY sinister. Him more so than others. The problem comes from the list that has been stated multiple times by numerous people and the list never changes. But what YOUR talking about is just a pure list of the smartest men on earth and if going by that then the list that has been stated by numerous people in comics and characters would be invalid. T'Challa wouldn't be top 10 nor maybe evn Hank Pym so with that regard your points are m00t because your telling me people who are smarter BUTTTTTTTT NONE of them are on the list stated in comics. NONE. So I'm telling you its pointless but your still arguing about sinister and the leader! When someone says they are one of the smartest men on earth that is just a statement just like being the most powerful. But the list of smart people in comic canon is about 50. So sinister can be on the list BUT again its been stated numerous times and even the rank has been hinted at with reed number one maybe doom two. We know for sure banner is top 8 but not top 5 cho is top 8. And so on and so forth. But I'm talking about the list that was discussed. Top eight.

#54 Nova Force Nova

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 02:43 PM

Cho is not top 8.

#55 sirmethos

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 03:15 PM

@sirmethos I did not say because they were evil they couldn't be on the list. Now your lying. I said they are regarded as crazy. ESPECIALLY sinister. Him more so than others. The problem comes from the list that has been stated multiple times by numerous people and the list never changes. But what YOUR talking about is just a pure list of the smartest men on earth and if going by that then the list that has been stated by numerous people in comics and characters would be invalid. T'Challa wouldn't be top 10 nor maybe evn Hank Pym so with that regard your points are m00t because your telling me people who are smarter BUTTTTTTTT NONE of them are on the list stated in comics. NONE. So I'm telling you its pointless but your still arguing about sinister and the leader! When someone says they are one of the smartest men on earth that is just a statement just like being the most powerful. But the list of smart people in comic canon is about 50. So sinister can be on the list BUT again its been stated numerous times and even the rank has been hinted at with reed number one maybe doom two. We know for sure banner is top 8 but not top 5 cho is top 8. And so on and so forth. But I'm talking about the list that was discussed. Top eight.


Here are the reasons you gave, for people not being on the list:

Magneto-Former terrorist and still not trusted generally. He has a broad scope of intelligence when it comes to how his powers are effected(the electromagnetic spectrum) but compared to Dr. Nemesis he is a nobody.

Sinister-An evil, corrupt, mad scientist with wild theories about genetics, and biology. He is laughed at and simply overlooked and maybe even thought to be dead.

Apocalypse-An evil being, over a thousand years old, who is immortal, and was charged by ancient aliens to protect evolution. He is thought to be gone and wouldn't be considered on the list due to his theories and his character.

The High Evolutionary-Same as sinister

The Mad Thinker-Evil scientist with wild theories as well. Laughed at, thought to be dead or just simply passed over.

Valeria-she may be stated as smarter than her father which would put her on the list.....BUT she is a child and wouldn't be looked at seriously.



So yes, you did say that being evil excludes people from the list, you just put it along with other reasons. And I don't lie, especially not online, people online aren't important enough to be worth the effort.

Also, as I have already said, there has never actually been given a definite 'list' in the comics. Only specific statements about specific people(T'challa being in the top 8, Banner being the most intelligent, Cho being the 8th most intelligent, etc.). Any list that comes up, is purely fanmade. it is based on specific comments from the comics, that's true, but again, no list has been given in the comics.

#56 Darxeth

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 03:35 PM

Xman, you've lost this argument, sorry.

#57 xman4life

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 04:18 PM

It was said in comics by heroes and villians alike and were allowed to say it more than once on numerous occasions. Now as far as the list I gave for why people wernt included I said my opinion, meaning can be true or false. And if I said evil was the reason there not on there how was I able to list dr. Doom? Yeah check it oit. YOU can to the conclusion that if they are evil they can't be on the list. I just gave a detailed reason.

@darexth this isn't about me arguing for people or against people. I'm saying marvel writers who know more than me you or sirmethos made that statement come out of peoples mouths NUMEROUS times so you can disregard that is you like but if its something tony stark, reed richards, hank pym, t'challa, and cho state and it wasn't a event or arc going on to try to pis it. Then that means.......guess? It must be a real list. I have comics in which they state it so what's are you trying to prove. Fans didn't come up with that. Writers at marvel came up with that and FANS like me read it! The comment was made in a hulk book, a avengers book, and others. And @nova it was stated in mighty avengers cho was in the top 8 when him and hank pym went back and forth about it. Dude like I HAVE the comics where its stated IN THE COMIC not from comicvine, not for wiki, but IN the comic so therefore its canon. To dispute that is utter foolishness.. So again if you DON'T work for marvel then the list stands with the same people on it its just the ranking that is off not the people.

#58 Nova Force Nova

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 04:26 PM

He's not in the top 8. Look at it logically.

High Evolutionary has been stated to be the smartest overall. 1 spot taken.

Reed Richards is near the top, or so you say. Valeria Richards is just as smart as Reed, if not smarter.

Either way, that's Valeria, Reed or Reed, Valeria. That's 2 spots taken. Doom also matches close if not superior to Reed. That's another spot.

Banner, Stark, and Pym are all real close, the order of which could be any one of them in any order on any given day. That's 7 spots taken.

You say T'challa is in the top 8, he's at the 8th spot.

Cho is not in the top 8 maybe somewhere from 9-14.

#59 xman4life

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 04:40 PM

If you want to go by logically then if that's the casde this debate isn't a debate because its been stated numerous times about the list of what I'm speaking of numerous times. No such list was ever mentioned. EVER so for one to "pop up" and is being stated numerous times then what else can be said.



NOW listen and listen well. I'm talking about the list that was stated. Now overall smartest everything aside then your list is very accurate. Somewhat because then you can add dr. Nemesis, beast, M, prodigy,box, and forge.and TONS more.

While I acknowledge valeria being smarter than reed. if you knew/know her then you know she HIDES it for her own reasons/or ones that were stated and I can't think of right now. I just tried to give my own reason for why people WEREN'T listed.

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 04:52 PM

For Christ's sake, xman4life, your signature does not work. It's impossible to paste images directly from your hard drive. Seriously, I didn't think such technological incompetence was possible.




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