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Match 10847 Batman vs. Black Panther


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Posted 17 February 2012 - 03:02 PM

It's been stated he's in the top six. Doom and Reed are definitely above him, and based on their inventions I'd put Stark and Pym above him too. So... 5th? Unless you consider Banner to be smarter than him, in which case he's 6th.

#22 Nova Force Nova

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Posted 17 February 2012 - 03:07 PM

MODOK? Mad Thinker? High Evolutionary? Kang? The Leader?

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Posted 17 February 2012 - 03:11 PM

MODOK? Mad Thinker? High Evolutionary? Kang? The Leader?

The actual top six came up in a recent-ish Hulk storyline, but it didn't give the exact order.

#24 xman4life

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Posted 17 February 2012 - 04:29 PM

MODOK? Mad Thinker? High Evolutionary? Kang? The Leader?

If you don't see what's the difference between them and hank pym, t'challa and reed richard there is a serious problem. They are all NOT human. Lol
just because we don't see feats of Black Panther doesn't mean he isn't smart. He is above ademus cho who is very very intelligent. So he is just more quiet about his. But either way the whole point is batman very rarely faced someone smarter than him. And batman isn't regarded as in the top 10 as far as intelligence in dc. So he MIGHT a big might be a better fighter but hands down black panther is smarter.

#25 Nova Force Nova

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Posted 17 February 2012 - 04:35 PM

The Mad Thinker and Kang are very much human.

#26 sirmethos

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Posted 17 February 2012 - 05:53 PM

The High Evolutionary is human as well, and so is The Leader.

Apocalypse is human as well, and is in that general caliber too


And yes, Batman is regarded as one of the most intelligent humans in DC.

#27 xman4life

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Posted 18 February 2012 - 06:44 AM

The High Evolutionary is human as well, and so is The Leader.

Apocalypse is human as well, and is in that general caliber too


And yes, Batman is regarded as one of the most intelligent humans in DC.

I didn't say Batman wasn't smart what I'm saying is he isn't in the top tier as in top 6 like The Black Panther is.

The leader has augmented intelligence so he couldn't count. come on now. same with the high evolutionary. apocalypse who is older than 99.9% of the earth is a mutant so he couldn't count as well because he has knowledge from the celestials.



Im shocked you of all people don't the see difference in

Hank pym(human)
Reed Richard(human)
Tony Stark(human)
Dr. Doom(human)
T'Challa(human)
Admeus Cho(human)

and

Prodigy(mutant who's power IS knowledge))
The High evolutionary(augmented intelligence)
Apocalypse(mutant who's thousands of years old)
the leader(augmented intelligence)
hell lets add sinister(mutant)

come on!

#28 xman4life

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Posted 18 February 2012 - 06:49 AM

The Mad Thinker and Kang are very much human.

"Also the Thinker is not an intuitive genius (e.g., Reed Richards) and is thus incapable of true invention" this quote sums it up.

Kang is from the future? come on guys like are you randomly saying smart people?


Um Cyborg(he's human kinda)
Um Dr. Manhattan(he used to be human)
Um Ozymandias(he's human)
um

#29 Darxeth

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Posted 18 February 2012 - 02:54 PM

I'm kind of shocked at how dumb you portrayed Nightwing.

I mean, really?



Aside from that, since Black Panther clearly has the advantage here, (No surprise there!), He wins.

However, if the situation was reversed, Batman would defeat BP.


Also, I thought Dr. Doom and Reed Richards were mutagenics?
Like, how could a human stretch like Reed Richards can? (Unless he doesn't possess that power anymore?)

Also, I read that Tony Stark is Post-human. (Whatever Marvel means by that)
The Arc reactor augments his intelligence (Based on information from Wikipedia)

#30 force_echo

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 12:16 PM

An Arc Reactor that he invented...

#31 xman4life

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 05:28 PM

I'm kind of shocked at how dumb you portrayed Nightwing.

I mean, really?



Aside from that, since Black Panther clearly has the advantage here, (No surprise there!), He wins.

However, if the situation was reversed, Batman would defeat BP.


Also, I thought Dr. Doom and Reed Richards were mutagenics?
Like, how could a human stretch like Reed Richards can? (Unless he doesn't possess that power anymore?)

Also, I read that Tony Stark is Post-human. (Whatever Marvel means by that)
The Arc reactor augments his intelligence (Based on information from Wikipedia)

Thank you force echo. He made it. Reeds exposure to cosmic rays didn't augment his intelligence so........to even bring uo the fact he can stretch is just pointless to say the least. Dr. Doom intelligence wasn't augmented. The top six people in Marvel are people who were born and learned to become as smart as they did. Unlike Gorgon(mutant). So AGAIN as I said they are the top as stated i a comic which is CANON so I think Marvel knows what they were doing.


Side note what doesn't black panther know that gives him an advantage in the fight....................nothing. So your point in bring up the fact that Black Panther knows he is a white guy in shape with technology helps in no way unless your saying his skin color has something to do with it?

But if your NOT saying skin color has anything to do with fighting skills then the fight is EQUAL.

"if the situation was reversed, Batman would defeat BP"......oh he would huh? So if batman knew he was a black prince of a country he could then beat him???????? Your logic is BEYOND foolish.

#32 sirmethos

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 05:51 PM

Reed Richards is able to increase his own intelligence by enlarging his head(shown in the comics), Tony Stark's intelligence is increased by his armor.

And Mister Sinister is not a mutant, he is just as human as Richards, Stark, Pym, Cho, Banner, etc.

Other people who are easily contestants as well(aside from the 6 people you listed): Magneto(has created technology that was stated to amaze even Richards with its design), Mister Sinister, Bruce Banner(the most intelligent non-augmented human on the planet), Hyperstorm(stated to have intelligence on par with Reed Richards), The Mandarin, Nathaniel Richards, Valeria Richards, Stryfe, Dark Beast.

Just to mention a few.

#33 force_echo

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 06:35 PM

I think what other people are trying to say is that there are different kinds of intelligence. Scientific intelligence, Stark has been stated to be among the top three smartest people in the world, the others being Richards and Banner I assume. Engineering/problem solving, Stark is stated to be the best on the planet.

#34 sirmethos

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 06:57 PM

I think what other people are trying to say is that there are different kinds of intelligence. Scientific intelligence, Stark has been stated to be among the top three smartest people in the world, the others being Richards and Banner I assume. Engineering/problem solving, Stark is stated to be the best on the planet.


But that's where we run into a problem. How, exactly, are those three(Stark, Richards and Banner), the 3 most intelligent/smartest people on the planet, when there is someone like Hyperstorm who is stated as being on par with Richards, in terms of intelligence? Does that mean that the top 3, are actually 4(or more, considering that others have similar statements about their intelligence).

Also, the statement that the entire argument started with, is that "Black Panther is one of the smartest men on the planet". Which says nothing about being Human. As far as I know, both the High Evolutionary, The Leader, Modok(arguable), Apocalypse, Magneto, Sinister, etc. are men as well. The High Evolutionary is arguably the most intelligent person on the planet, surpassing even Richards, Banner and Stark by a large margin.

#35 corvette1710

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 07:02 PM

Batman's used to being one step ahead of people because he's always one step ahead of people.

#36 xman4life

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Posted 20 February 2012 - 12:10 AM

hyperstorm is in the future so it's doesn't count the slightest. Tony, Reed, Hank Pym, T'Challa, Dr.Doom are all smart without any augmentation, help, or guidance. if they weren't heores they STILL would be the smartest men on earth.

Arguing the ranks of the smartest men on the planet stated by marvel during continuity with a comic reader( which makes it canon) is like arguing menu prices on food to the valet driver.lol IT DOESN'T MATTER!!!!! lol

Fact is marvel has stated this numerous times that
Reed Richards
T'Challa
Hank Pym
Admeous Cho
Tony Stark
Dr. Doom are in the top smartest men on earth. there is no debating or adding people to this list. there are OTHER smart people yes........

Mr.Sinster is over 80 years old and is augmented vastly.
Apocalypse is over a thousand years old so he can't count
Dr. Nemesis is a mutant who's intelligence is part of his power
Beast is smart but relatively he is the best in his field(mutant genetics)
"ditto" for Bruce Banner(Gamma radiation)
forge is a mutant who's power is building
same for Box
Magneto is smart but just in his field(the electromagnetic spectrum)
Hyperstorm isn't in continuity, or 616 present
the list can go on and on but it doesn't matter because the list is already out.lol

#37 sirmethos

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Posted 20 February 2012 - 07:33 AM

Actually, Banner is(by Marvel) stated as being among the top, not just in his own field. He is also stated by Marvel as being the most intelligent (non-augmented)person on the planet.

Magneto is not just the best "in his field"(magnetism), he is stated as being "far beyond contemporary science", in both Genetics, Engineering, Particle Physics, and Biology.

Mr. Sinister's intelligence is not augmented in any way, and he is(the High Evolutionary not included) the absolute number one in Genetics and Biology.

Despite Apocalypse's age, he is still a man, and his intelligence is not augmented in any way.

Stark's intelligence is augmented by his armor(and has been since he got the Extremis armor).

Amadeus Cho is not one of the top 6(he is one of the top 8, with Banner stated as being above him on the list).

Valeria Richards is, granted, not a man, but she has been stated as being smarter than her dad(Reed Richards).

#38 xman4life

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Posted 20 February 2012 - 10:56 AM

Actually, Banner is(by Marvel) stated as being among the top, not just in his own field. He is also stated by Marvel as being the most intelligent (non-augmented)person on the planet.

Magneto is not just the best "in his field"(magnetism), he is stated as being "far beyond contemporary science", in both Genetics, Engineering, Particle Physics, and Biology.

Mr. Sinister's intelligence is not augmented in any way, and he is(the High Evolutionary not included) the absolute number one in Genetics and Biology.

Despite Apocalypse's age, he is still a man, and his intelligence is not augmented in any way.

Stark's intelligence is augmented by his armor(and has been since he got the Extremis armor).

Amadeus Cho is not one of the top 6(he is one of the top 8, with Banner stated as being above him on the list).

Valeria Richards is, granted, not a man, but she has been stated as being smarter than her dad(Reed Richards).

Valeria is from the future and she is subjected to the whole other dimension timeline thing along with hyperstorm, and the fact she isn't known by all of marvel.

Apocalypse would be smart.....HE IS OVER A THOUSAND YEARS OLD. so how can that count when everyone on the list is MAX 60. and he is NOT a man. which man do you know is over 1000 years old. he has been augmented by the celestials, EVEN HIS INTELLIGENCE. Sirmethos you should know that!

Tony Stark was one of the smartest men on earth PRIOR to the armor (which he created) so that doesn't count and for you to say that THAT is the reason he is up there makes me question your comic knowledge.(force echo school him please)

Banner is up there I never said he isn't smart. he is top 8 but not top 5. Sirmethos you should know that!

Magneto is smart as I said but he STILL isn't top 8 or 6 so again why are you even telling me this?


I'm like Sirmethos look at this list all of them are NON augmented. Reeds powers doesn't mean anything, he was smart before cosmic rays hit him, same with doom, same with hank, same with, Tony, same with T'Challa. again if non of the people had powers, or were heroes this STILL would be the list. Sinister is not regarded as human ANYMORE since he is like immortal, and has powers, and um controls his body on a molecular level(but i guess all people can do that), each person on that list has to eat, breath, and sleep. they are human. Tony in armor or doom in armor doesn't but thats when they are in armor. you strip away armor and put the top 8 in an air tight room with no food for 3 months they will all die. sinister would live, apolcalypse would live, the high evolutionary would live. do you get the theme here?

T'Challa
Hank Pym
Tony Stark
Reed Richards
Dr. Doom

Don't know who the sixth one is but it wasn't banner or cho, but either way those 5 are the top as stated by Marvel so you can debate all you like but this is the list. Sinister isn't there, neither is magneto. the top 8 includes banner and cho. so this is simply talk because it can't be a debate because the list .......is......made.....already.

#39 kainboa

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Posted 20 February 2012 - 12:20 PM

Valeria is from the future and she is subjected to the whole other dimension timeline thing along with hyperstorm, and the fact she isn't known by all of marvel.

Apocalypse would be smart.....HE IS OVER A THOUSAND YEARS OLD. so how can that count when everyone on the list is MAX 60. and he is NOT a man. which man do you know is over 1000 years old. he has been augmented by the celestials, EVEN HIS INTELLIGENCE. Sirmethos you should know that!

Tony Stark was one of the smartest men on earth PRIOR to the armor (which he created) so that doesn't count and for you to say that THAT is the reason he is up there makes me question your comic knowledge.(force echo school him please)

Banner is up there I never said he isn't smart. he is top 8 but not top 5. Sirmethos you should know that!

Magneto is smart as I said but he STILL isn't top 8 or 6 so again why are you even telling me this?


I'm like Sirmethos look at this list all of them are NON augmented. Reeds powers doesn't mean anything, he was smart before cosmic rays hit him, same with doom, same with hank, same with, Tony, same with T'Challa. again if non of the people had powers, or were heroes this STILL would be the list. Sinister is not regarded as human ANYMORE since he is like immortal, and has powers, and um controls his body on a molecular level(but i guess all people can do that), each person on that list has to eat, breath, and sleep. they are human. Tony in armor or doom in armor doesn't but thats when they are in armor. you strip away armor and put the top 8 in an air tight room with no food for 3 months they will all die. sinister would live, apolcalypse would live, the high evolutionary would live. do you get the theme here?

T'Challa
Hank Pym
Tony Stark
Reed Richards
Dr. Doom

Don't know who the sixth one is but it wasn't banner or cho, but either way those 5 are the top as stated by Marvel so you can debate all you like but this is the list. Sinister isn't there, neither is magneto. the top 8 includes banner and cho. so this is simply talk because it can't be a debate because the list .......is......made.....already.


You seem to have this misconception that experience has anything to do with intelligence, which it doesn't.
Apocalypse may be several thousand years old, however that doesn't make him more intelligent, that just gives him a lot of experience Using his intelligence.

Putting arbitrary qualifiers as to why a certain person needs to be eliminted in the running for the most intelligent person is quite frankly, stupid, as the various qualifiers has absolutely nothing to do with how intelligent the various persons are.

The only qualifier i can think of that should actually have any impact, is whether or not they get said intelligence via augmentation or not.

#40 sirmethos

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Posted 20 February 2012 - 12:35 PM

"Valeria is from the future and she is subjected to the whole other dimension timeline thing along with hyperstorm,"

No, she isn't. An alternate reality version of her is from the future, but Valeria Richards from the 616-earth, Franklin Richards little sister, is from the main timeline.


"and the fact she isn't known by all of marvel."

How exactly does that affect her intelligence? That's right it doesn't. And she is stated as being more intelligent than her dad(Reed Richards).


"Apocalypse would be smart.....HE IS OVER A THOUSAND YEARS OLD. so how can that count when everyone on the list is MAX 60. and he is NOT a man. which man do you know is over 1000 years old. he has been augmented by the celestials, EVEN HIS INTELLIGENCE. Sirmethos you should know that!"

1. His age has nothing to do with his intelligence, it only affects his Experience.

and 2. No, his intelligence has not been augmented by the Celestials.


"Tony Stark was one of the smartest men on earth PRIOR to the armor (which he created) so that doesn't count and for you to say that THAT is the reason he is up there makes me question your comic knowledge."

When, exactly, have I said that his augmented intelligence is the reason for him being on the list? But by your own criteria, Stark should be removed from the list since he is now augmented by his armor, and is this, not one of the non-augmented brains in Marvel anymore.


"Banner is up there I never said he isn't smart. he is top 8 but not top 5. Sirmethos you should know that!"

I never said that he is top 5. I said that he is at the top, and that he is above Amadeus Cho, which is simply a fact, stated by Marvel.


"I'm like Sirmethos look at this list all of them are NON augmented. Reeds powers doesn't mean anything, he was smart before cosmic rays hit him, same with doom, same with hank, same with, Tony, same with T'Challa. again if non of the people had powers, or were heroes this STILL would be the list"

No, not all of them are non-augmented. Reed Richards is capable of enhancing his own intelligence(as shown in the comics), and Tony Stark is augmented by his armor. it's true that they were both at the top of the list when they were non-augmented, but by your own argument, they do not belong on the list anymore, due to augmentation.



"Sinister is not regarded as human ANYMORE since he is like immortal, and has powers, and um controls his body on a molecular level(but i guess all people can do that), each person on that list has to eat, breath, and sleep. they are human. Tony in armor or doom in armor doesn't but thats when they are in armor. you strip away armor and put the top 8 in an air tight room with no food for 3 months they will all die. sinister would live, apolcalypse would live, the high evolutionary would live. do you get the theme here?"

And how, exactly, does being immortal affect intelligence? That's right, it doesn't. Sinister's intelligence is just as Non-augmented as Hank Pym or Bruce Banner, as is Apocalypse's. And if you are excluding the High Evolutionary from the list, then you should be excluding Tony Stark from the list as well, since they are both augmented by their own inventions.


And finally, Marvel has never given an actual list. They have simply stated that certain people are among the 5 or 8 or 10, smartest people on the planet(Cho is stated to be the 8th most intelligent person on the planet, Banner is stated as being the most intelligent person on the planet). T'Challa is only stated as being among the 8 most intelligent, not the top 5.




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