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#1 Skirmisher

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Posted 06 June 2009 - 03:14 PM

I started the original post in the old CBUB forums, but even I though that the requirements were too vague to post accurate stats. So I have since tried to define what the difference between the Tiers actually is, I could also use some help with the Examples.

Characters Start on Second Page.


Categories
Strength
The ability to lift things, as well as how devastating the fighter's physical attacks are, be they punching, kicking, or other.

Speed
Combat Speed not travel speed. This is the fighters ability to Blitz an opponent, such as the time it takes to accelerate and decelerate during a fight, unless of course the fighter likes to Strafe their opponents or just plain run into them.

Agility
Grace, dexterity, the ability to make hairpin turns, etc. The speed of a fighters attacks also fall under this category (as in punches per minute)

Durability
How much damage a fighter can take before KO or death. Basically, how much before incapacitation.

Energy
This governs how strong Energy Attacks are like Eye Lasers or Energy Blasts

Will
This includes the fighters Will to fight as well as how much endurance he/she has.

Intelligence
This covers both in and out of battle Intelligence. It determines whether the fighter can adapt on the fly, or even mimic another fighter's abilities. It also governs the strength of Strategies and Tactics that the fighter can come up with.

Skill/Experience
How much battle experience has the fighter had to date, and how much of it that fighter can actually use in other/new scenarios.

Special
Here's where you find the odd stuff, like Telepathy, Transmutation, Mind Control, Charisma, Luck, etc. If it doesn't fit in the other categories then it goes here.



Rankings and Examples of Rank
0 = Non-Existent
  • The Average Humans Psychic ability
  • The Speed at which a regular Human Fly's through the air (Discounting Falling or being Thrown)
  • Functionally an Idiot (IQ: 30 or lower)
  • etc.
1 = Pathetic
  • The 98lb weaklings strength
  • the speed at which an out of shape person runs
  • "Borderline intellectual functioning" (IQ: ~70)
  • etc.
2 = Average
  • Regular Joe in all abilities that are present
3 = Peak
  • bench a ton or more of weight
  • run the 100m in under 10 seconds
  • The Common Genius
  • Basically anyone who's won a gold in the Olympics or any World Record Holders
  • etc.
4 = Meta
  • Multi-Ton Lift capacity
  • Shrugs off High caliber rounds like they were BBs or paint balls
  • At most Mach 1 in speed.
  • Genius level IQ
  • etc.
5 = Super
  • 50+ Tons of Lift Capacity
  • Multi levels of Mach
  • Shrugs off Anti-Tank rounds like they were BBs or paint balls
  • Super Genius...
  • etc.
6 = Ultra
  • 10,000+ Tons of Lift Capacity
  • Speed of Light or close
  • Shrugs off Nukes and small Meteors
  • etc.
7 = God
  • 1,000,000+ Lift Capacity
  • Low levels of FTL
  • Able to survive Extinction Level Events
  • etc.
8 = Elder God
  • Nigh-Omni-[insert power here]
  • etc.
9 = Beyond known Limits
  • Literally Omni-[insert ability/power here]
10 = No Limit
  • Able to do anything regardless of how ridiculous it is... "Lift the Universe one handed, sure."
  • Anything done is done Effortlessly


Example Character

Name: The Master Chief
Strength: 4 (The Chief has preformed numerous feats that require a strength of at least 5-8 tons)
Speed: 3 (Fastest Spartans can run 62 Km/h, MC's just about as fast)
Agility: 4 (Movements are considered a Blur, Bullet Time reaction speeds)
Durability: 3-4 (Able to take sustained bursts of automatic weapons fire for short periods of time)
Energy: 0-2 (If he picks up an Energy Based weapon)
Will: 4 (Even when battered and beaten with little to no hope of survival he battles on)
Intelligence: 3 (Genetically superior and trained for most of his life)
Skill/Experience: 5 (Adaptive, Intuitive and been through 100+ battles over 20 something years)
Special: 3-5 (Luck, and an AI hacking Program)


So what do you say your Favorite Characters stats are?

#2 Adam Safran

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Posted 06 June 2009 - 03:15 PM

'Will' should be different from energy. Will can be mental strength/willpower to resist psychic attacks, to fight on.. Entirely different from energy. Ie, someone like Thing has hideous willpower, but no energy or ranged attacks whatsoever, so is he low or high given his primary gimmick is he takes horrendous beatings and never gves in?

#3 Skirmisher

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Posted 06 June 2009 - 03:18 PM

'Will' should be different from energy. Will can be mental strength/willpower to resist psychic attacks, to fight on.. Entirely different from energy. Ie, someone like Thing has hideous willpower, but no energy or ranged attacks whatsoever, so is he low or high given his primary gimmick is he takes horrendous beatings and never gves in?


Good Point, edit in progress.

#4 Adam Safran

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Posted 06 June 2009 - 03:21 PM

And what do you do for people who have varying 'stats' then? Ie, Iron Man, who doesn't have powers (If you dont' count Extremis) and for everything is based on the armor? Or who has different suits with differnet level of capabilities? Or Batman, whom most of his fights are based upon preparing to take on a sepcific enemy? For people who can upgrade themselves like chars from video games?

#5 Skirmisher

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Posted 06 June 2009 - 03:23 PM

And what do you do for people who have varying 'stats' then? Ie, Iron Man, who doesn't have powers (If you dont' count Extremis) and for everything is based on the armor? Or who has different suits with differnet level of capabilities? Or Batman, whom most of his fights are based upon preparing to take on a sepcific enemy? For people who can upgrade themselves like chars from video games?


Give a X-Y stat, Like I did with MC Energy stat line. 0 because he has no natural energy attacks at base and 2 since he can pick up and use Energy weapons.

#6 Adam Safran

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Posted 06 June 2009 - 03:24 PM

I also might want to add 'luck'. For characters who win due to things liek PIS, have sheer luck based powers, toons, etc.. Basically a quantifier for people who in-character have a tendency to do much better than their stats suggest or win without really being pushed to the limit against more powerful enemies. Just call it 'Luck' and it can be for thigns like PIS, luck based powers, etc. Or how often flukes happen for them to win, to the point it's an integral part of the char.

#7 Skirmisher

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Posted 06 June 2009 - 03:25 PM

I also might want to add 'luck'. For characters who win due to things liek PIS, have sheer luck based powers, toons, etc.. Basically a quantifier for people who in-character have a tendency to do much better than their stats suggest or win without really being pushed to the limit against more powerful enemies. Just call it 'Luck' and it can be for thigns like PIS, luck based powers, etc. Or how often flukes happen for them to win, to the point it's an integral part of the char.


That would go under the "Special" section.

#8 Adam Safran

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Posted 06 June 2009 - 03:29 PM

I'd say it's enough to warrant it's own separate category as special - since Special can be something from 'Cosmic Psychic Powers' to 'Power Cosmic' to 'metareality manipulation' as you put it. It's too hard to quantify that way what qualifies as high end or low end with a catch-all category like that.

How does this quantify for someone liek Professor X, who's the most powerful telepath on Earth? As versus Silver Surfer, who has the Power cosmic, but fractionalized compared to Galactus? Or someone like a low to moderate ended reality warper like Proteus up through Molecule Man? Or someone like Longshot who's specific power -is- luck who would have a much lower score but has consistently beaten people much higher powered than him on this level of scale as it's.. What he does?

#9 Skirmisher

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Posted 06 June 2009 - 03:35 PM

I'd say it's enough to warrant it's own separate category as special - since Special can be something from 'Cosmic Psychic Powers' to 'Power Cosmic' to 'metareality manipulation' as you put it. It's too hard to quantify that way what qualifies as high end or low end with a catch-all category like that.

How does this quantify for someone liek Professor X, who's the most powerful telepath on Earth? As versus Silver Surfer, who has the Power cosmic, but fractionalized compared to Galactus? Or someone like a low to moderate ended reality warper like Proteus up through Molecule Man? Or someone like Longshot who's specific power -is- luck who would have a much lower score but has consistently beaten people much higher powered than him on this level of scale as it's.. What he does?



Well think of it like this. Surfer would probably have a 5 or a 6 in Special because of his PC. Prof. X would also probably have a 5 or a 6 in Special because of his powers. If the two were to actually fight with just their Specials then it should be fair, since SS could PC X and X could *insensitivity* SS.

#10 Adam Safran

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Posted 06 June 2009 - 03:41 PM

Well think of it like this. Surfer would probably have a 5 or a 6 in Special because of his PC. Prof. X would also probably have a 5 or a 6 in Special because of his powers. If the two were to actually fight with just their Specials then it should be fair, since SS could PC X and X could *insensitivity* SS.


But a fight with them wouldn't go that way, basically since Surfer's PC makes him -much- more versatile than just mere telepathy. How would you rank someone who has a lower end power that's much broader in scope than.. Well, Proteus, who can do mid level molecular manipulation (from Exiles) but is considered low tiered compared to someone like Surfer who has power cosmic, or molecule man.. Would someone more powerful than he is in their 'special' power (Ie Xavier) be ranked higher than them even though Proteus basically can turn Xavier nito goo ro something equivalent? I'm not arguing against this, I'm just stating that doing a universal generic 'powers' system is -really- hard to do, whether you compare people from just the same reality or to ones from multiple genres. It's either hideously, hideously overcomplex (like many RPG systems like Rifts means to do just about any sort of game) or very simplified and doesn't accurately reflect things. I'm not meaning to diss you or what you're trying to do, I'm just playing devil's advocate to see how you envision the system and how well it can be toyed with to be generally accurate or not, or account for thigns within the system for comparing power levels that do different thigs.

Good RPG systems I've seen that can do 'mutliversal char stats' are things like Champions and Rifts - Rifts is the god of crossovers, and Champions has WAY more power setups and feats and with a bit of tweaking is good for showcasing chars from a lot of different continuities and themes. But God, they're both hideously complex out the wazoo and have dozens of individual stats - and that's before factoring in how they each setup powers and such.

#11 Skirmisher

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Posted 06 June 2009 - 03:50 PM

Well, I was trying to have the stat factor in all the unusual parts of powers.

Power Cosmic would be broken up into a couple different stats. For instance it increases the users Strength, his durability, and gives him strong Energy Blasts. The "Special" of PC is Transmutation. As far as I know that's all there is that's special about it that doesn't fit into the other categories. So where on that scale would you rate the Surfers Transmutation Abilities?

Power Cosmic is a Great Ability as it effects Multiple Stats, that's it though.

#12 Cosmic Deadpool

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Posted 06 June 2009 - 03:58 PM

This looks like a great representation of powers and abilities and the way they should be categorized.. The only category that I would question is Peak Human Strength.. Both Captain America and Batman are listed at peak human and neither can lift more than 900lbs(I'm not sure if the Marvel directory considers their entry as with or without Super-Soldier serum) I think 2000 ilbs may be a bit generous for that level..
~Cos

#13 Adam Safran

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Posted 06 June 2009 - 04:01 PM

This looks like a great representation of powers and abilities and the way they should be categorized.. The only category that I would question is Peak Human Strength.. Both Captain America and Batman are listed at peak human and neither can lift more than 900lbs(I'm not sure if the Marvel directory considers their entry as with or without Super-Soldier serum) I think 2000 ilbs may be a bit generous for that level..
~Cos


In fairness there's 'real life' super class weight lifters who can do jump lifts of nearly that much for short periods of time, and people who have shown they can flip cars or pull trucks.. I think 2000 pounds is good as it's within the realms of human 'reason' and just as Cap only does 'around' 1200 lbs (or wahtever) doesn't mean the scale should peak there, since peak human can also mean smoeone who -only- does extreme strength training, rather than 'all around' epic ahtlete.

Look at like Olympic weight lifters who do jerk squats and people that do shows and such.

#14 Skirmisher

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Posted 06 June 2009 - 04:08 PM

lol, It's nice that the Thread's getting some good attention and alot of the kinks in it's system are being worked out, but will anyone answer the last question?

So what do you say your fav characters stats are?

#15 Adam Safran

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Posted 06 June 2009 - 04:14 PM

Most of the characters I'd know well enough to 'write up' wouldn't lend themselves to such a system as.. Well, ones like toons or characters who routinely win by PIS or WTF events. I mean.. Squirrel Girl. Her base physical stats would be pretty low, but her Specials 'stat' would probalbly be max, given she's.. Squirrel Girl. And I still have no idea how one ranks toons.

#16 Skirmisher

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Posted 06 June 2009 - 04:57 PM

Most of the characters I'd know well enough to 'write up' wouldn't lend themselves to such a system as.. Well, ones like toons or characters who routinely win by PIS or WTF events. I mean.. Squirrel Girl. Her base physical stats would be pretty low, but her Specials 'stat' would probalbly be max, given she's.. Squirrel Girl. And I still have no idea how one ranks toons.


Quite right, she's not that physically imposing, you could probably shoot her to death with a sling shot, etc... But the thing is her "Power" is PIS, and it is Very Strong. She beat Dr. Doom with a swarm of Squirrels! She had Thanos Arrested by the Police! That's some strong stuff there, probably close or at 10 for her Special.

As for Toons, it would be similar, but their "Toon Force" puts them at least at 10, and may or may not bump other stats up.

#17 Adam Safran

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Posted 06 June 2009 - 05:14 PM

Yeah, and.. HOw do you quantify feats for toons who can do just about anything to 'make a joke' and then can be at the receiving end of it as well if it'd be funnier to have it backlash over on them? HEh.

#18 Skirmisher

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Posted 06 June 2009 - 05:21 PM

Yeah, and.. HOw do you quantify feats for toons who can do just about anything to 'make a joke' and then can be at the receiving end of it as well if it'd be funnier to have it backlash over on them? HEh.


I'd say a 10+ to do anything to make a Joke work since there is actually No-Limit on it, even if it backlashes. So based on all of this what would you say your characters stats are?

#19 Adam Safran

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Posted 06 June 2009 - 05:25 PM

I'd say a 10+ to do anything to make a Joke work since there is actually No-Limit on it, even if it backlashes. So based on all of this what would you say your characters stats are?


Uhm, trying to come up wiht someone that's realistically -not- striaght 'max stats' like Bugs or something.

#20 Skirmisher

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Posted 06 June 2009 - 05:28 PM

Basically when it comes to toon force anything that's funny is possible. Their Strength would probably be 10 due to the fact of the "My Artillery is bigger than your Artillery" sketch where the toons are pulling out guns that should weigh in the Trillions of tons and throwing them around like they were only normal sized.

Like I said the Toon Force is similar to the Power Cosmic in that it amps some of the other stats.

Hell, I wouldn't put it beyond someone to give Bugs mostly 10's for his stats.




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