82 replies to this topic

[treacherous]

What about the rules?



Or maybe you are too much of a rebel fo' da rulez

Any rules posted by a CBUBer (Marvel Man) are bound to be suspicious.

Now, in real life Batman would be killed by Predator.

[Lunacyde]

If I see Batman... and I just put my gun down and give up. He'll just tie me up and leave me for the cops. I might even escape if the cops are incompetent.

If I shoot at him, Ok I'll get knocked out, that would quickly get around as what happens if you shoot at Batman.

Hell, I could even take a hostage, then kill him or her in front of Batman and still maybe just go to the hospital for a bit.

If I was Batman, I'd kill someone in an absolutely horrible way every once and a while so criminals would continue to think I was some creature of the night or other terrifying thing.

Or at the very least disfigure them with some mark.. Like a bat thing on their face.

So you'd turn him into Moon Knight basically?

[Hayesmeister5651]

Any rules posted by a CBUBer (Marvel Man) are bound to be suspicious.

Heh.

All a real life Batman would need is just tear gas.

A room full of drug dealers, just throw in some tear gas, put on a mask and thermal goggles, and then proceed to knock them out while they are gagging uncontrollably.

[Soberguy]

Heh.

All a real life Batman would need is just tear gas.

A room full of drug dealers, just throw in some tear gas, put on a mask and thermal goggles, and then proceed to knock them out while they are gagging uncontrollably.

1) If tear gas is thrown into a room, the bad guys flee the room. They don't stand there waiting for Batman to punch them in the face.

2) Thermal goggles are terrible for close-quarters combat. Ignoring the fact that you have next to no peripheral vision, having amorphous blobs of colour jumping at you from all directions would be almost as confusing as fighting blind.

3) Knocking someone out in real life is actually tough to do, espcially while wearing a gas mask and thermal goggles in an enclosed, gas-filled space surrounded by drug-dealers. Even blind and choking, a swarm of crooks would pose a formidable challenge for someone in real life.

[Hayesmeister5651]

1) If tear gas is thrown into a room, the bad guys flee the room. They don't stand there waiting for Batman to punch them in the face.

2) Thermal goggles are terrible for close-quarters combat. Ignoring the fact that you have next to no peripheral vision, having amorphous blobs of colour jumping at you from all directions would be almost as confusing as fighting blind.

3) Knocking someone out in real life is actually tough to do, espcially while wearing a gas mask and thermal goggles in an enclosed, gas-filled space surrounded by drug-dealers. Even blind and choking, a swarm of crooks would pose a formidable challenge for someone in real life.

1) False. I have a few friends in the military, once you breathe in that tear gas you are instantly gagging and tearing up. You feel like you are suffocating.

2) Maybe so.

3) Then use some riot control devices such as these:
Rubber Ball Grenades
Multi Shockwave Tasers
These are LED lights that make you feel sick, and disorient you

[KevinDWolf93]

Well, I agree largely with what Tom said but I do want to specifically target a counter-point you implied(not specifically mentioned, but whatever). Now, so you dont try to change the goalposts, I will not argue if anything would be feasable in the realworld, as you never specified any of that in the original post. The concept if they somehow figured out he's not gonna actually kill them and such. This scene is largely your argument I think...except in that case, there are several very good counterpoints to bring up.
Let's analyze the scene; Batman breaks into a highly guarded nightclub, and kicks several shades of crap out of Maroni's personal henchmen, bodyguards,a nd anyone else stupid enough to het in his way on his way to forcefully snatch his target. Once he does, bats holds him up of a rooftop and threatens to push him over. Now Sal is lucky they're not like 20 stories up or a likewise higher spot and calls the bluff, and he smugly says the fall is very survivable. Bat's answer is something along the lines of 'yeah, I know' and pushes the bastard off anyways. Sal still refuses to tell cause the joker's an even bigger loon than Bruce, but he's clearly in pain and Bat's just decides to not waste anymore time with the guy and goes to talk with Dent.
1. Alot of what Tom says holds up true here; he's shown to be able to get you whenever the hell he feels like it, no kind of hiding or security's gonna stop him, and to top it off he's more than willing to break every bone in your body to get what he wants out of you. As an extra counter-point to he never physically tortures, I have this to say; Off the top of my head: the nolan series where this among other scene he kicks the crap out of people wants info from, the Arkham game series where that's how you get the riddler challenges amongother things, heck even in the old TAS cartoon hanging a guy over a rooftop was an old favorite(2:55 onward for it, and a special bonus) among other things. Without even getting into the comics, where Im pretty damn sure ie doesn't leaving his opponents a bloody mess. He doesn't kill, but mauing is another story entirely. This might be a suprise to you, but threats of violence from a guy you cant stop and know full well is capable of carrying out said threats is a bit of a thing most human beings consider. Most adaptions of Batman is
2. Bruce left the guy to go do some more important stuff, but there was no reason to believe he wasn't gonna eventually gonna try again. Unlikely maybe, but given what the joker does after it'd surely be worth another go. Hell, if Bruce had more time on his hand's it wouldnt've been implausable for him to go 'let's try another story up this time', even if it was to just break the other leg(see this, and it shows next time we see him, he is needing to use a cane) to see how he'd hold up. Heck, if he's that easy a target Bruce could've come back again at another time even, though the second and 3rd act happen quickly here, so we'll never know how the rest of his interroations would've gone. Maybe Batman waiting right next to his car in a parking lot of a hospital the poor bastard went to for some outpatient check on his leg, and seeing him there calm and surrounded by several bodyguards knocked clean out would've helped the situation. Also, a plot point to the end of the film is that Bruce and Gordon make everyone(criminals included) that Bats has cracked and started to knock off criminals he doesn't have time to torture or otherwise dick around with(as to cover for Dent's murders). Until TDK-R comes out, Im gonna stay firm in that not many people would pull what Maroni did afterwards in that universe.
3.The other guy he was afraid to mess with was the friggin joker. Yeah, there is grounds to say that crazy man is the worse of the two. In TDK alone he sets a guy on fire just because of a verbal insult, has semtex stuck in some guy caus ehe wanted a flashy escape from the GCPD precinct, and was more than willing to blow the crap out of himself just so he could give all of the mob bosses a talk about how to handle such a situation. To compare, the second vid wherwe we see maroni using a cane, a regular guy pointing a gun at him is easily able to get the information he wants(ie: dent about the cops on his payroll). To most regular thugs, a name/location of another(non insane, human, superhuman) gang member Bruce is probably gonnaput away or even their boss probably isn't worth getting beat within an inch of your life and the idea of being on the top of Batman's list if he's running dry on information next time.

Last thing, considering the alot of the posts you use personal pronouns Im guessing you may or may think you could handle some of these situations mentioned.....which is kinda funny. Now, I can admit I hardly know you but I doubt most regular people could (orwould want to) stand up to most things a man who is crazy enough to dress up like abat to fight crime, is skilled enough to not have died yet, knows everything from human anatomy(ie where and how to break things liek bones, joints, organs, etc) to pressure points(no joke either) and is very focused on getting information our of you and is probably having a bad day(as far as things go for him). If there was ever such a person, I'd love to see someone spit in their face and dare them to kill him with complete confidence.

*stands back*

*0_0*

Damn, been awhile since I put up a wall of text like that.

EDIT:
@Hayesmeister: in addition to what Soberguy said, you've clearly never played a tactial FPS(think Rainbow 6 or swat 4), things like gasmasks aside, it's not always fullproof it'll work even if they can't escape the room. If that's all a given vigilante did, I'm sure someone would wisen up to the tactics eventually. One thing isn't always gonna work eerytime. When written right/not batgod or otherwise not able to have his precious prep time, Batman expemplifies this, having to to adapt either what he can get his hands on or use his current gear in an unorthodox way.

The fight with superman in the Hush(?) storyline is a good example(Batman throwing everything from kryptonite to the batmobile at a brainwashed superman and still barely living, not winning) as is a fight in a comic Ive read recently(Batman Confidential-Rules of engagment trade); Sadly I dont have scans, but basically he's fighting a prototype waynetech batttle robot. On his person among other things are high grade explosive, (forgot number, but it was ridiculously high) tensile strength rope, and a frequency jammer(was meant for things like cellphones, but he was scraping at the bottom of the barrel by this point) and he is desperately trying to use that, his ingenuity and more in hopes of holding the thing off for more than 10 seconds. Bottom line he does horribly and it gets away. Round 2 comes along and he simply managed to get ahold of the bot's shutdown switch in the between time....and he uses it. End of fight.

[Nova Force Nova]

The moment you see the gas come in, you cover your mouth and nose. Really, it's not that difficult.

[Hayesmeister5651]

The moment you see the gas come in, you cover your mouth and nose. Really, it's not that difficult.

So then you have traps set. All escape routes have them set with traps.

Besides have you tried to do that, or are you just assuming it would work?

[Nova Force Nova]

I'm assuming it would work, based off your military friends saying you have to breathe it in to gag and tear up.

[Spytheman]

Just elaborating on what Tom said...

Lets pretend, hypothetically, your a criminal. Now, one day, you hear on the news that the Jersey Devil is indeed real, and is going after bad guys. Yes, you would be scared. That's basically what people think Batman is. A demon, or ghost, or whatever. If it is 100% confirmed that the Jersey Devil is real and after you, you would be scared.

[Ruinus]

How many Batmans exist in real life? Zero.

How many ninjistu-karate-martial arts-Nuarto masters in the real world go out and fight crime repeatedly? Zero.

How many smart geniuses who invent gadgets go out in the real world to fight crime? Zero.

[Soberguy]

Just elaborating on what Tom said...

Lets pretend, hypothetically, your a criminal. Now, one day, you hear on the news that the Jersey Devil is indeed real, and is going after bad guys. Yes, you would be scared. That's basically what people think Batman is. A demon, or ghost, or whatever. If it is 100% confirmed that the Jersey Devil is real and after you, you would be scared.

Only if it were Scott Stevens.

[silversurfer092]

You can all shut your whore mouths.

[Djgambrell]

How many Batmans exist in real life? Zero.

How many ninjistu-karate-martial arts-Nuarto masters in the real world go out and fight crime repeatedly? Zero.

How many smart geniuses who invent gadgets go out in the real world to fight crime? Zero.

Go on.

[LoneWolf]

I'm assuming it would work, based off your military friends saying you have to breathe it in to gag and tear up.

Not CS gas (basic tear gas), it burns your skin and anything exposed. Not breathing is alot harder than it sounds especially when you are excited or doing something physical.

How many Batmans exist in real life? Zero.

How many ninjistu-karate-martial arts-Nuarto masters in the real world go out and fight crime repeatedly? Zero.

How many smart geniuses who invent gadgets go out in the real world to fight crime? Zero.

I knew this Sifu who was on his way to a kung fu tournament and some guys tried to mug him. He basically did what Batman would have done.

[Ruinus]

I knew this Sifu who was on his way to a kung fu tournament and some guys tried to mug him. He basically did what Batman would have done.

That's a far cry from him going out of his way to hunt down and fight dangerous men armed with guns.

Go on.

My point is that in the real world there are people who have close to Batman levels of skill (and I saw close to, because in the real world no one is going to be Batman and master several different types of martial arts while simultaneously running a megacorporation while also simultaneously developing new state of the art technologies while also hunting down criminals and launching detective work) who don't go out and engage in vigilante behaviour.

The question of "can comic book type vigilantes work in the real world?" is answered when you look at the real world and see a startling lack of vigilantes fighting crime and doing so successfully. No one attempts to be Batman, or Rorschach, or the Punisher in the real world. There's a reason (actually, several reasons) why.

[LoneWolf]

Last thing, considering the alot of the posts you use personal pronouns Im guessing you may or may think you could handle some of these situations mentioned.....which is kinda funny. Now, I can admit I hardly know you but I doubt most regular people could (orwould want to) stand up to most things a man who is crazy enough to dress up like abat to fight crime, is skilled enough to not have died yet, knows everything from human anatomy(ie where and how to break things liek bones, joints, organs, etc) to pressure points(no joke either) and is very focused on getting information our of you and is probably having a bad day(as far as things go for him). If there was ever such a person, I'd love to see someone spit in their face and dare them to kill him with complete confidence.

No, in real life I would rather avoid being beaten, tortured, imprisoned etc... I'd be like "Batman.. Ok, my boss lives on 241 northwest avenue... He has a gun on him, the keys are under the doormat..."

I'm not a gang member or prisoner though...

[LoneWolf]

That's a far cry from him going out of his way to hunt down and fight dangerous men armed with guns.

In the real world, guns make martial arts obsolete. Everyone uses them, good guys and bad.. You can't just go out with only your ninja skils cuz the risk of getting shot is too high.

It is pretty sad really, you could be a millionaire genius with tons of training, skill etc.. and some 10 year old with a gun can kill you. I wish they didn;t exist in fact... I saw a poster in the imaes forum like "If guns didn't exist the world would be a better place etc.."

Of course then we'd be back to sword fights.

[tomisntblue]

As a side note, I present the real life Batman



He's not so much good at "stalking the night and striking fear into the hearts of criminals" but he is good at "walking around and stopping that guy over there from taking that lady's purse".

[RakaiThwei]

Now, in real life Batman would be killed by Predator.

Damn it, you just had to put that up there for me to see, didn't you Treach?

I am not getting this one. Not touching that one with a sixty foot pole!

As a side note, I present the real life Batman



He's not so much good at "stalking the night and striking fear into the hearts of criminals" but he is good at "walking around and stopping that guy over there from taking that lady's purse".

He was on Taboo on NatGeo... He's still doing the crime fighting thing.

Seriously, there are others out there doing what he does. Look for the documentary SUPERHEROES by HBO.

-Rakai'Thwei