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Can this team beat Dark Phoenix?


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#101 Pseudonym

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Posted 25 January 2012 - 07:57 PM

Make up your minds, if it's not Jean Grey, then how is it human? And therefore bound to human limits?


Are you saying Jean Grey is the only human?

#102 Bladephyre

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Posted 25 January 2012 - 08:52 PM

How is it that people read comics as much as most of us do and some still do not get the concept of a body copy.

Speaking of which, I dug up my copy of the Dark Phoenix Saga. A few things to keep in mind.

1. Dark Phoenix is surprised multiple times by: Beast, Wolverine, a Shi'ar ship, and more. Never would have happened with FTL reflexes.

2. Silver Surfer, notices a HUMAN, with unimaginable power. SS is pretty sharp when it comes detecting life and energy. Kind of exactly what he was made for and all. A quote "She is human, flawed and that flaw bids fair to destroy her." That sums it up pretty well.

3. Never anywhere in the entire storyline does it ever say, show, or even imply that she has faster than human reflexes or reactions

I have the whole series next to my computer now if anyone needs something, no scanner though.

I still thing Dark Phoenix wins, as I have said the whole time, the likelihood of her having her shields down is pretty small, she likes to stay in space, and if she is there she would have to have them up. The only way for them to win is if she is on a planet, and not expecting anything.

#103 Dr. Pymp(mex)

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Posted 26 January 2012 - 01:35 AM

Thanks blade to dig that up! I haven't had time to do so, may I ask, if it's not Jean how is it that Silver Surfer sensed a human? I am being legit not sarcastic or anything?

In my earlier posts I'm just saying that even if is true black Adam and etc can't win, not even with preemptive strikes that's all

Proving she has less than Ftl reflexes doesn't answer this question just shows that they will land hits on her

#104 Dr. Pymp(mex)

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Posted 26 January 2012 - 01:48 AM

Are you saying Jean Grey is the only human?


Just saying there is only one Jean so if what sirmethos says that Dark Phoenix is not Jean Grey then it cannot be human as The Phoenix Force doesn't create life like that

#105 sirmethos

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Posted 26 January 2012 - 02:03 AM

Thanks blade to dig that up! I haven't had time to do so,


"may I ask, if it's not Jean how is it that Silver Surfer sensed a human? I am being legit not sarcastic or anything? "

Silver Surfer sensed a human because(as I have already said several times at this point), Dark Phoenix's body is an identical copy of Jean Grey's body, created by the Phoenix Force itself.


"In my earlier posts I'm just saying that even if is true black Adam and etc can't win, not even with preemptive strikes that's all

Proving she has less than Ftl reflexes doesn't answer this question just shows that they will land hits on her"


Ok, I'll explain it one last time.

As already established, Dark Phoenix has a purely human body. Thus, if she gets hit, without her telekinetic shields, she is affected by the hit like a normal human would be.

The fact that she has (far)less than FTL reflexes, means that when Black Adam/Ultraman/Superboy-Prime/Sentry does a blitz attack on her, they hit her too fast for her to get her defenses up, and she goes *splat*(like any remotely normal human would, if hit with that amount of strength, at that amount of speed).


As I have also said (several times), if she did manage to use her powers, then she is powerful enough to take out most of the team in seconds. But since her reflexes are that of a normal human, the team(or at least 4 of them) are fast enough to hit her before she can use her powers.



Just saying there is only one Jean so if what sirmethos says that Dark Phoenix is not Jean Grey then it cannot be human as The Phoenix Force doesn't create life like that


Actually, the Phoenix Force did create life like that, it created the identical copy of Jean Grey's body, that Dark Phoenix has(as explained in the comics).

#106 shellsbut

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Posted 26 January 2012 - 04:07 AM

-sigh-

Ok, since the issue of reflex speed was conceded, I'll simply address the other glaring error in your post.


"Name one person that can beat the Phoenix Force?"

You are still confusing the Phoenix Force with the Dark Phoenix. This entire thread is about Dark Phoenix, not the Phoenix Force. The two are not exactly the same.

The Phoenix Force is a nigh-omnipotent cosmic entity, probably one of the most powerful beings in the entire Marvel universe.

However, the Dark Phoenix is considerably less powerful. It was stated in the comics, that Dark Phoenix has the same power level/energy level, as a starving Galactus.

While that is still incredibly powerful, it is nothing compared to the full power of the Phoenix Force.

And why is it that Dark Phoenix is that much less powerful? Because she is, as I(and others) have already said several times, limited by her physical form(an identical copy of Jean Grey's body).




I was right why argue the point when almost ever resource states she can move FTL. As for the rest Dark Phoenix is definately more powerful then a starving Galactus. Everything is more powerful then a starving Galactus. I did read somewhere that Dark Phenix is the might of Phoenix Force without the host trying to keep the true power at bay so definately stronger then you make her out to be but possibly not the full might of the entity itself

I notice you or someone else metioned the Sentry. It was stated somewhere that he held off Galactus on his own (it didnt metion Galactus as being starved either) but with both Galactus and Sentry there is alot of up and down.

#107 Hayesmeister5651

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Posted 26 January 2012 - 10:09 AM

Shellsbut, are you purposefully being an idiot? We know she can move FTL. WHAT IS BEING DEBATED IS HER REFLEXES....REFLEXES ARE NOT THE SAME AS TRAVEL SPEED YOU DOPE.

#108 kainboa

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Posted 26 January 2012 - 10:22 AM

I notice you or someone else metioned the Sentry. It was stated somewhere that he held off Galactus on his own (it didnt metion Galactus as being starved either) but with both Galactus and Sentry there is alot of up and down.


Actually, the thing about Sentry holding off Galactus was merely mentioned once in one of the little yellow boxes to denote how powerful he is, it was never actually shown 'on screen' so that particular feat is pretty much useless.

#109 sirmethos

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Posted 26 January 2012 - 02:05 PM

No, Dark Phoenix is not more powerful than a starving Galactus.

It was stated in the comics that she has the same power level/energy level, as a starving Galactus.


The Comics > any other source you might be using.

#110 Dr. Pymp(mex)

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Posted 26 January 2012 - 03:22 PM

No, Dark Phoenix is not more powerful than a starving Galactus.

It was stated in the comics that she has the same power level/energy level, as a starving Galactus.


The Comics > any other source you might be using.



being stated is canon, but not if there is no proof. Sentry was stated to hold galactus off, but it was never displayed so it hasn't been used. Phoenix is stated to be more powerful than Galactus (Phoenix Force by the way is one and the same as Dark Phoenix, it believed itself to be her, but was never actually her, she damped her powers purposely, so no she is not reduced to mere human abilities.

Teh Phoenix Force exists in many people, Rachel, Jean, and others that were in the past. In Fact The Phoenix Force is everywhere at once, like the Power Cosmic, which people may harness that power, in Jean's case, it was like a little kid, where it if was defeated by Black Adam and etc. she would get pissed and kill them all. which is why I said they lose to her.




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