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Vegito Vs. Silver Surfer


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#21 Marvel Man

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Posted 20 September 2009 - 03:58 AM

More Surfer respect needed?

Well Marvel's glad to answer that call! Here he proves to have a sense of humor and that he can create illusions to fool people.

http://img504.images...003321ilqe9.jpg
http://img504.images...003322ilco2.jpg

He even fools Galactus with this one!

http://img504.images...urer630ibv6.jpg

Next up is another thing that might work.

Put Vegito to sleep.

http://img248.images...706sleepvc6.jpg

#22 Skirmisher

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Posted 20 September 2009 - 04:16 AM

Theory #1: Open a Black Hole.

Proof of him opening one?


Success! Found a scan of Surfer transmutating living beings.

Here Surfer has to help with a deadly virus. So, he picks out an individual, and transmutates anti-bodies inside him. So yes, he can affect, create, and change living things.

http://img519.images...fer03517hf2.jpg

He didn't Transmute anything there. He merged, identified the virus and created anti-bodies. Do you think that Humans transmute anti-bodies to viruses?


Here he proves to have a sense of humor and that he can create illusions to fool people.

http://img504.images...003321ilqe9.jpg
http://img504.images...003322ilco2.jpg

He even fools Galactus with this one!

http://img504.images...urer630ibv6.jpg

Yet there wouldn't be time to create a believable illusion in a battle like this. As well, Vegito like all Z-Fighters is fully capable of sensing someones life force which would allow him to see through basic illusions like that.


Next up is another thing that might work.

Put Vegito to sleep.

http://img248.images...706sleepvc6.jpg

Yet he was only able to do it because 1) He had physical contact with her head, and more importantly 2) She was in a very frantic state of mind which would hinder any defense. So, I could go back to the good old argument that Saiyans are resistant to Mind stuff, but I won't. Vegito would never give up on a fight for something as trivial as sleep. He has Goku's love of Battle and Vageta's warrior pride to keep him awake. Even if Surfer were able to KO him with that he would most likely still battle while asleep.

#23 Marvel Man

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Posted 20 September 2009 - 06:03 AM

Proof of him opening a Black Hole?

Here his friend Air Walker dies. He needs a cool grave. Why not a Black Hole?
http://www.projectfa...versurfeiv2.jpg
http://www.projectfa...versurfeay7.jpg
http://www.projectfa...versurfekp8.jpg

#24 treacherous

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Posted 20 September 2009 - 02:43 PM

Skirmisher, although I respect your debate. I am probably as impartial as you'll get. I really don't care who would win, I just looked at this thread because Grano created it. But from what I've seen, Vegito is outmatched. I mean, Surfer created a black hole to bury someone! His feats on every scan are ridiculous. His level and plethora of powers are starting to dwarf Vegitos to me.

Fighting jawbreaker?

#25 granobulax

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Posted 20 September 2009 - 03:32 PM

The problem with arguing for DBZ is that the person that does the arguing must use ABC logic. It's particularly easy to argue for a character that has feats to post in scans and those feats that Surfer has is increadible, I won't deny that. What everyone must realize though is that Vegito has INSANE powers and abilities that he never truly got a change to show. After all, he was in existance for only a few minutes. One thing there is though, is who he was utterly man-handling, Mystic Buu.

Kid Buu, an equally powerful version of Mystic Buu, was capable of destroying entire galaxies. It was shown in the anime that he could do so. Vegito was light years ahead of Mystic Buu in terms of sheer power. He was transmutted and yet retained all his powers. He has the capabilities to shred through dementional barriers themselves!

I'm not saying that Vegito would win in a fight against Silver Surfer, I'm just pointing out that this is a far more even fight than people here think it is.

#26 Skirmisher

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Posted 20 September 2009 - 03:49 PM

Skirmisher, although I respect your debate. I am probably as impartial as you'll get. I really don't care who would win, I just looked at this thread because Grano created it. But from what I've seen, Vegito is outmatched. I mean, Surfer created a black hole to bury someone! His feats on every scan are ridiculous. His level and plethora of powers are starting to dwarf Vegitos to me.

Fighting jawbreaker?

Then I'll just have to try and prove that Vegito could theoretically fight within a Black Hole!


First how many G's are there in a Black Hole? Lets use a standard Stellar Black Hole, and lets repurpose this handy Star Wars calculator to find the proper G value of it.

A standard Stellar Black Hole has an average diameter of 30Km, and determining that it takes just over light speed to achieve escape velocity that would give a value of ~300,000,000,000 G Fighting conditions. That's quite alot now, but I think that Vegito could pull it off.

Edit: I Actually think it should be far less than that in G's due to the fact that 1G = 9.797645m/s2 which would mean that it would only take about 30,570,323G to equal Light Speed...

First is the Fact that Before even the Androids, Vegeta was training at 350-500G, since then in Base form the Z-Fighters have gotten stronger through the use of the Hyperbolic Time Chamber as well as through many fights and other training sessions. He also trained at this level without the aid of any Super Saiyan level. As well, judging Goku's power before and after he went SSJ for the first time, the increase between the level is 50x, this covers Strength, Durability, Speed, and all the other stuff that go with Combat.

Now that would mean that a Super Saiyan level 3 should be able to easily withstand at least 62,500,000G, and Buu was fighting evenly with a SSJ3. Yet Vegito in Base form was easily at least one level higher than Buu, lets just say x2 for the moment. Vegito also has access to SSJ2.

Based on this, Base Vegito should be able to handle 125,000,000G, while SSJ2 Vagito should be able to easily handle 312,500,000,000G! He would be able to escape a Black Hole by sheer Power Alone, without using a gimmicky trick like Hyperspace or Dimensional Travel, and he wouldn't need to use IT. This is also a fairly conservative number.

#27 treacherous

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Posted 20 September 2009 - 04:46 PM

You know, that was so smart sounding that you win out of default.

#28 MarvelFan15

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Posted 20 September 2009 - 08:00 PM

Indeed.

I'm licking my wounds because of his almighty math skills.

#29 Marvel Man

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Posted 21 September 2009 - 12:25 AM

Math?

See, that's why I avoid DBZ threads. Oh well. I'll just have to keep on going.

So, you've managed to prove that Vegito can, in theory, fight within a black hole. Well, that's great and all, except for one thing.

Vegito needs to breath air.

It's an established fact that most Z-Fighters still breath oxygen. That's why Goku was worried about surviving in space during his fight with Frieza. That's why all the fights take place on Earth. Just like Superman, Vegito still needs air.

Surfer does not need air + There's no air in space/black hole = flaw in your theory.

I'll wait to see your counterexampke.

Note: I applaud your debating skills.

#30 Skirmisher

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Posted 21 September 2009 - 01:31 AM

Hmmm... Touché on the need to breath.


Well there are always two options... Do what Superman does and hold his breath, or wear a space suit/air tank...

With IT he would always be within seconds of getting new air, and Z-Fighters have shown a very good ability to hold their breath (They've been under water for several minutes without showing any sign of fatigue).

As for Space suits... well yes, they can be ripped, though it would mean that Vegito would fight at Max right off the start so that there wouldn't be any chance of it getting torn.

There is also two other points to bring up here that I just thought of. First, Vegito is technically a Magic Entity. The Kai's earrings and the fact that he survived as a jaw breaker point to this. As a Magical Being he just might not need to breath air. The second point is a simple wish from the Dragon Balls could rectify this weakness...

lol, I just thought of another option, one that would allow him to fight without need of either a suit or holding his breath. An Air Capsule... all he would need to do is pop one into his mouth and press the trigger with his tongue. Poof and Air! I'm also sure that Bulma could rig up a slow release capsule just for this fight.

#31 Zreth

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Posted 21 September 2009 - 01:38 AM

Actually I have another idea. I'm not exactly sure about this so I think I'm gonna need comfirmation but can't the air become trapped around him if he can move fast enough?

#32 Artemis Entreri

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Posted 21 September 2009 - 01:38 AM

Hmmm... Touché on the need to breath.


Well there are always two options... Do what Superman does and hold his breath, or wear a space suit/air tank...

With IT he would always be within seconds of getting new air, and Z-Fighters have shown a very good ability to hold their breath (They've been under water for several minutes without showing any sign of fatigue).

As for Space suits... well yes, they can be ripped, though it would mean that Vegito would fight at Max right off the start so that there wouldn't be any chance of it getting torn.

There is also two other points to bring up here that I just thought of. First, Vegito is technically a Magic Entity. The Kai's earrings and the fact that he survived as a jaw breaker point to this. As a Magical Being he just might not need to breath air. The second point is a simple wish from the Dragon Balls could rectify this weakness...

lol, I just thought of another option, one that would allow him to fight without need of either a suit or holding his breath. An Air Capsule... all he would need to do is pop one into his mouth and press the trigger with his tongue. Poof and Air! I'm also sure that Bulma could rig up a slow release capsule just for this fight.



None of the above will work with Surfer. I understand the transmute options is dead for this debate...But Silver Sufer can see on a molecular level. Meaning he would simply see the breathing aid and then dispatch it leaving Vegito back to square one.

#33 Skirmisher

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Posted 21 September 2009 - 01:40 AM

Actually I have another idea. I'm not exactly sure about this so I think I'm gonna need comfirmation but can't the air become trapped around him if he can move fast enough?

Brolly had a technique where he trapped air around him in a Ki Shield... similar, but I don't think Vegito knows that one.

#34 granobulax

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Posted 21 September 2009 - 01:41 AM

It was called right when it was said that Vegito is a magical being. He lived even though he was a jawbreaker and had no lungs so it stands to reason that in saiyan form he wouldn't need oxygen either. The Potara earrings possess great magical powers after all.

Jawbreaker w/o lungs = no need for oxygen.

#35 Skirmisher

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Posted 21 September 2009 - 01:46 AM

None of the above will work with Surfer. I understand the transmute options is dead for this debate...But Silver Sufer can see on a molecular level. Meaning he would simply see the breathing aid and then dispatch it leaving Vegito back to square one.

But the Surfer wouldn't be able to touch a capsule that's in his mouth. Vegito just wouldn't allow it. As for holding his breath, there is nothing that the Surfer could do to stop IT, and IT is shown to be many, many times faster than what they've stated it to be. So while the Surfer could get to a planet that Vegito has ITed to, he wouldn't have the time to destroy it before Vegito takes a couple breaths.

It was called right when it was said that Vegito is a magical being. He lived even though he was a jawbreaker and had no lungs so it stands to reason that in saiyan form he wouldn't need oxygen either. The Potara earrings possess great magical powers after all.

Jawbreaker w/o lungs = no need for oxygen.

Ding, just what I was saying.

#36 Artemis Entreri

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Posted 21 September 2009 - 01:51 AM

It was called right when it was said that Vegito is a magical being. He lived even though he was a jawbreaker and had no lungs so it stands to reason that in saiyan form he wouldn't need oxygen either. The Potara earrings possess great magical powers after all.

Jawbreaker w/o lungs = no need for oxygen.



What you stated is only a theory with no proof! Sadly magic can't be the answer without proof. You don't know if the jawbreaker had lungs are not. I'm not sure either I admit. But the fact is the fight took place in a oxygen filled environment.

A blackhole is the premise on which I entered the debate and base my comments on. Surfer will defeat Vegito only if he doesn't hole back.

I have the look for it, but I have a Marvel Vs. comic that pit Surfer against the Magically powerful Scarlet Witch. It was a STOMP as he simply told her that the powers she possessed were to powerful for a human to hold and TOOK THEM FROM HER! NOW THAT"S BADASS!

#37 granobulax

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Posted 21 September 2009 - 03:17 AM

You want proof that a jawbreaker has no lungs? Even Buu said "You can still talk! How is this possible?" meaning that he could talk without a mouth. He was made of candy. If his magic was strong enough for that, then who's to say that in his regular form he needed oxygen?

The problem with arguing for DBZ is that it's all speculation. We can only assume what powers and capabilities they have. I'm not in any way saying that Vegito would win this fight. All I'm arguing for is that it's closer than either DBZ fans or Marvel fans would like to think.

#38 Artemis Entreri

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Posted 21 September 2009 - 03:37 AM

You want proof that a jawbreaker has no lungs? Even Buu said "You can still talk! How is this possible?" meaning that he could talk without a mouth. He was made of candy. If his magic was strong enough for that, then who's to say that in his regular form he needed oxygen?


You just proved my point....If he can talk with no mouth as a jawbreaker. He could breathe with no lungs! The point is maybe he was still breathing.


The problem with arguing for DBZ is that it's all speculation. We can only assume what powers and capabilities they have. I'm not in any way saying that Vegito would win this fight. All I'm arguing for is that it's closer than either DBZ fans or Marvel fans would like to think.


My other point was that Silver Surfer simply TOOK the magic from one of Marvel's top tier magic users. Just cause he deemed it too powerful for her to wield. In theory he could do the same to Vegito.

In theory since he beat he beat Scarlet Witch. This should be a stomp given the feats the witch has done dwarfs any and every feat a DBZ characters has done......

#39 TheRandomBandit

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Posted 21 September 2009 - 08:10 AM

Grano and Skirmish, are the only Dbz people I love to debate with. They are both great debators.

#40 MarvelFan15

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Posted 21 September 2009 - 08:15 PM

But the Surfer wouldn't be able to touch a capsule that's in his mouth. Vegito just wouldn't allow it. As for holding his breath, there is nothing that the Surfer could do to stop IT, and IT is shown to be many, many times faster than what they've stated it to be. So while the Surfer could get to a planet that Vegito has ITed to, he wouldn't have the time to destroy it before Vegito takes a couple breaths.


You forget Surfer can teleport as well...

Also, he controls matter and energy by will, not touch, meaning that Vegito would have no control over what Surfer wanted to do with the capsule.

And, if outside help is available, why can't Surfer just call Galactus?




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