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Why do DBZ themed threads never die?


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#21 575david

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Posted 13 July 2011 - 10:59 AM

I personaly watch it for the story and I must say it is a very intresting story mostly because of the main part I care about Vegeta.
Vegeta is the shining gem story wise for this anime having a fairly large amount of character development.
Other characters that help the story-Mirai Trunks,Piccolo,Freeza, if its Dragonball Kuririn and Tenshinhan all these characters have very intresting stories and I found them very enjoyable.

The story isn't that great I thought it was amazing as a kid, and I watched it again recently without the same result. All I can say about DBZ is that I'm glad that I had the chance to watch it as a kid because it introduced me to Anime.

#22 Darksaiyajin345

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Posted 13 July 2011 - 11:06 AM

The story isn't that great I thought it was amazing as a kid, and I watched it again recently without the same result. All I can say about DBZ is that I'm glad that I had the chance to watch it as a kid because it introduced me to Anime.

Thing is personally in my opinoin the story is great again in my opinion.

#23 575david

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Posted 13 July 2011 - 11:13 AM

Thing is personally in my opinoin the story is great again in my opinion.

Well, that's your opinion if you like the story then good for you.

#24 Guest_Ivan_*

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Posted 13 July 2011 - 11:16 AM

I have a personal vendetta against DBZ fans, largely because I used to be one.

I got into DBZ in 1996, when I was in junior high school, long before it was on American television, and in 1998 the only person I could find to talk about it with on the ENTIRE INTERNET was this guy in New Jersey named Greg Werner who created the *original* Ultimate DBZ Information site and he told me where online I could get fansubs of the movies. He was also learning Japanese and worked his ass off over many nights- he was likely the first person to translate the Daizenshyu into English (or at least he was the first one to post his translation online, before the non-translated books were even available commercially in America,) he posted the complete translated list of every attack used in the manga, anime, and movies, and his enthusiasm was infectious- it made me want to watch more anime. I bought Jin Roh: Wolf Brigade and Ghost in the Shell on VHS, entirely on his recommendation. To this day he's the ONLY person I'd ever trust to answer a Dragonball related question.

Anime was a fad for me, my interest remained but mellowed out to the point where I don't treat it differently from any other form of animation- if it's good, I'll watch it. If it's crap, no thanks. Funimation got a hold of DBZ and sliced it up into an unintelligible mess, then Toonmai ran it into the ground (and consistently played episodes out of order) but the popularity of DBZ meant that several other, better Shonen series (like Samurai Troopers and Gundam Wing) kept getting shuffled or bumped from the lineup. Watching the episodes again, in English, I began to realize how it's all flash and no substance, and anything in the anime after the death of Freeza is 75% garbage (after the Cell game that number goes even higher.) Couple my declining lack of interest with the sudden spike in DBZ popularity- and the fact that most every DBZ fan online was young, naive, and (most importantly) not a comic book reader. This led to a number of early arguments where, in spite of my superior knowledge of BOTH subjects (at the time- remember the Buu saga and the later movies hadn't even aired yet in America,) DBZ fans would insist that Goku at the beginning of DBZ was already far stronger than Superman or Thor or Silver Surfer could ever hope to be in spite of the fact that these people couldn't even tell me WHICH Superman they were talking about (this part is still largely true.)

This led to further complications as well-meaning fans tried to provide mathematical justification for their answers, which always turned into a nightmare. Someone tried to calculated the force necessary to overcome the gravitational forces holding a planet together. Someone else tried to figure out the precise energy required to extinguish and subsequently re-ignite a main sequence star. And every day, more and more DBZ fans who knew less than I did were coming here to argue. Eventually I began to hate them on principle.

Flash forward to now, DBZ fans have a longstanding reputation for having a poor grasp on power tiers. (Darkseid is a GOD who routinely kills OTHER GODS. Nobody in the DBZ universe presents much of a challenge. Sorry.) For as much as I despise feats, DBZ is a show that trades almost exclusively on feats, so people with absolutely no ability to think abstractly or conceptually are drawn to it. That's my main beef with all DBZ fans, they immediately cling to "Harder Better Faster Stronger = Always Wins" which is of course contrary to the very point of heroes in the first place.

I'm certain that many of you have seen the same amount of Dragonball I have by now (possibly more, as I skipped most of GT, which started out promising, but became 99% garbage.) Some of you undoubtedly have more of the manga than I do (I only collected Dragonball) and for what it's worth, there seems to be at least SOME standardization in the English spelling of character names (Bejita? Klilyn? Chowzu?) The DBZ fanbase also seems to have shifted slightly, toward people who are trading on nostalgia rather than insane, fanatical devotion, and as this thread indicates, there is SOME attempt at outreach, DBZ fans striving to make peace, admitting that just because a cartoon guy can punch really hard in his little universe, that doesn't guarantee he's invincible. Still, there's a long way to go. The GOOD parts of Dragonball/DBZ (there are no good parts of GT) often get overlooked because people focus on the fighting. Dude, that entire universe is completely insane! (Mostly thanks to Dr. Slump, but still.) The president of the world is a talking dog. There are dinosaurs and giant animals. The entire planet's crust is made of incredibly fragile rocks which not only shatter with the slightest impact, but FLOAT into the air any time someone starts yelling. There was a mountain that was constantly on fire, and the solution tuned out to be for an old dude to shoot more fire out of his hands to stop it.

For the record, though, no part of Dragonball, DBZ, or DBGT is "well-written." That adjective is reserved for only quality fiction.

#25 bigballerju

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Posted 13 July 2011 - 11:18 AM

Thats why I always tell people to read the manga rather then watch the anime. DBZ fighters use up alot of there power for all sorts of things like Ki attacks, martial arts, flight, and more. All this is required to have KI and that KI can't go forever which is prove as to why after a good while in fights DBZ fighters do get tired. DBZ fighters can only fight at light speed and nothing else. DBZ Fighters don't just throw planet busting attacks whenever they want. If people really know DBZ then you know after one planet busting attack that takes up alot of there power and they will be very weak from it. People who claim all these feats DBZ has don't know nothing and those are the fans that make real Dragonball fans look bad. Yeah DBZ fighters can build up there power again in a fight but they only have very few times they can keep doing it. Watch Dragonball or Dragonball Z to see when Goku does a huge attack he has no more power. Thats why he sometimes in those situations is given a sensu bean because without it his power would take a long time to build back up. Prove again Vegeta and Goku took a long time to heal after there first battle. Both were healing in there seperate tanks where Freeza's people healed Vegeta and Goku was being healed elsewhere. This is my opinion of the whole DBZ thing on here so others will feel differently. DBZ fighters have alot of limits that most people who say there fans ignore or dont even know about do to ignorance or lack of knowledge from not reading the Manga.

#26 Soberguy

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Posted 13 July 2011 - 11:36 AM

Can we just skip to the part where we all acknowledge that Ivan is 100% right and move on to a thread about which Green Lantern was the best or something?

Spoiler


#27 Djgambrell

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Posted 13 July 2011 - 11:38 AM

So can I not be a fan of dbz on here anymore :lol:

#28 Hayesmeister5651

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Posted 13 July 2011 - 11:48 AM

Let me ask you this Ivan, are the DBZ fans on here now much better then the ones from past?

#29 DamagingRob

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Posted 13 July 2011 - 11:53 AM

The story isn't that great I thought it was amazing as a kid, and I watched it again recently without the same result. All I can say about DBZ is that I'm glad that I had the chance to watch it as a kid because it introduced me to Anime.

I did too, as I own all the seasons now, and my liking of the show then didn't seem to degrade. Guess it just depends on the viewer.

#30 Darksaiyajin345

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Posted 13 July 2011 - 11:58 AM

Why is everyone arguing over the abilities that DBZ characters have thats not really a reason to hate the fanbase.
And there is plenty of well written material in DB and DBZ Toriyama did death scenes very well (Couldnt keep them dead but thats the producers fault more than his.) and did vey well in developing Vegeta and Piccolo more than any other characters. Piccolos transition from evil to good through Gohan's kindness even though it still seemed he was fighting the saiyajin for his own personal reasons. But when push came to shove he knew what to do.
Vegeta's transition was done better in my opinion. His true rivalry with Goku didnt start during the saiyajin arc but at the end of the Freeza arc when his dream of killing Freeza the man who had worked him like a slave and had no respect for him was taken by a low class wretch. Not only that but he had crushed his pride to bits upon his ascension to the super saiyajin. Then it turns out Freezas alive and there is another super saiyajin that kills him doing futher damage to his already weakened pride. After he finally turns into a ssj and gains his birthright he is deafeted almost immediatly by jinzoningen 18 and then was surpassed by even piccolo. He was being driven mad and why shouldn't he be saiyajin culture is almost 100% based on strength he didnt know anything else but to be strong. After training in the room of spirit and time he was finally the strongest he was better than Goku,Piccolo the jinzoningen and everyone else and in his arrogance let Cell reach his Kanzentai Cell form and was quickly done away with. After that he was once again surpassed by Goku and not only that but by a child. He watched his son die before his eyes and finally understood what it was like to lose some one (Note up until this point he could give less of 2 shtz if anyone died.) After the battle with Cell he even went so far as to give up fighting. He finally settled down and was no longer the evil space pirate he was at the start of the series. But after seeing Goku display his powers against Yakon he understood that without the Bloodlust of his past self he would no longer have the ambition to defeat Goku so he let himself fall under controll after a brutal battle he knocked Goku out and set forth to fight buu with the knowledge that he was probably going to die in this battle. After being traped he was saved by his son. Vegeta actually hugged his son and told him to take care of his mother. This is the same character who ruthlessly commited mass genocide a few sagas back. He then sacrificed himself for the good of the earth his new home.
Now why did I bother to write all this because this is how I see the series as Vegeta's turmoil on having to time and time again be out done in not only strength but in character but later becoming one of the 'Weaklings he mocked.' and even dieing for his new home.

#31 Shockwave

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Posted 13 July 2011 - 12:04 PM

To be frank I got into it when it was about the Android Saga, mostly because I was waiting for Tenchi Muyo to come on back in Intermediate school (for those that do the K-6 that would be 5-6). Then I went back and watched it again and liked it, and I'll admit I thought Goku could beat Superman, but I didn't know the feats of Superman earlier than the Animated series or the Justice League cartoon so that was my basis for the argument. Hell, I dressed up as Trunks for Halloween one year (the last year I went out) and to this day I wonder why the hell I even watched it.

It's true that the show is basically a fireworks show, all flash no sustenance. But I did like the lighthearted nature that Dragonball had, none of this love triangle crap that has to be in every Shonen series now-and-days that has infected American comics again (See rational for making of One More Day).

When you're younger, this is the best show to watch to keep you entertained, it's like a Michael Bay movie. Dragonball is the real good one if you are looking for some storyline that makes sense (given the suspension of disbelief).

#32 Shockwave

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Posted 13 July 2011 - 12:08 PM

Why is everyone arguing over the abilities that DBZ characters have thats not really a reason to hate the fanbase.
And there is plenty of well written material in DB and DBZ Toriyama did death scenes very well (Couldnt keep them dead but thats the producers fault more than his.) and did vey well in developing Vegeta and Piccolo more than any other characters. Piccolos transition from evil to good through Gohan's kindness even though it still seemed he was fighting the saiyajin for his own personal reasons. But when push came to shove he knew what to do.
Vegeta's transition was done better in my opinion. His true rivalry with Goku didnt start during the saiyajin arc but at the end of the Freeza arc when his dream of killing Freeza the man who had worked him like a slave and had no respect for him. Not only that but he had crushed his pride to bits upon his ascension to the super saiyajin. Then it turns out Freezas alive and there is another super saiyajin that kills him doing futher damage to his already weakened pride. After he finally turns into a ssj and gains his birthright he is deafeted almost immediatly by jinzoningen 18 and then was surpassed by even piccolo. He was being driven mad and why shouldn't he be saiyajin culture is almost 100% based on strength he didnt know anything else but to be strong. After training in the room of spirit and time he was finally the strongest he was better than Goku,Piccolo the jinzoningen and everyone else and in his arrogance let Cell reach his Kanzentai Cell form and was quickly down away with. After that he was once again surpassed by Goku and not only that but by a child. He watched his son die before his eyes and finally understood what it was like to lose some one (Note up until this point he could give less of 2 shtz if anyone died.) After the battle with Cell he even went so far as to give up fighting. He finally settled down and was no longer the evil space pirate he was at the start of the series. But after seeing Goku display his powers against Yakon he understood that without the Bloodlust of his past self he would no longer have the ambition to defeat Goku so he let himself fall under controll after a brutal battle he knocked Goku out and set forth to fight buu with the knowledge that he was probably going to die in this battle. After being traped he was saved by his son. Vegeta actually hugged his son and told him to take care of his mother. This is the same character who ruthlessly commited mass genocide a few sagas back. He then sacrificed himself for the good of the earth his new home.
Now why did I bother to write all this because this is how I see the series as Vegeta's turmoil on having to time and time again be out down in not only strength but in character but later becoming one of the 'Weaklings he mocked.' and even dieing for his new home.


Why? Simple. Fans start making up facts that don't exist in the series. These then get turned into rational because when they are pointed out the fans then latch onto them more because they made them up and think the author did.

#33 Darksaiyajin345

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Posted 13 July 2011 - 12:38 PM

Why? Simple. Fans start making up facts that don't exist in the series. These then get turned into rational because when they are pointed out the fans then latch onto them more because they made them up and think the author did.

I can understand that for not liking individual fans but some people dont like the any fans because they dont like the story which doesnt make sense to me you can hate the story all you want you can say its bad all you want but you shouldnt say "Because I think the story is bad your dumb for liking it"

#34 Soberguy

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Posted 13 July 2011 - 12:40 PM

I can understand that for not liking individual fans but some people dont like the any fans because they dont like the story which doesnt make sense to me you can hate the story all you want you can say its bad all you want but you shouldnt say "Because I think the story is bad your dumb for liking it"


I don't see why I shouldn't say that. I say that all the time.

#35 Darksaiyajin345

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Posted 13 July 2011 - 12:47 PM

I don't see why I shouldn't say that. I say that all the time.

You can say that you can say it as much as you want. But I dont see how thats any better than Gokuz can beatz anyonez.

#36 Mr. Outstanding

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Posted 13 July 2011 - 02:12 PM

The president of the world is a talking dog.


That was one of the reasons I found DBZ so compelling.

#37 I_KNOW_ALL

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Posted 13 July 2011 - 02:46 PM

Personally at least, I am always wary of DBZ debates because I am always dreading someone claiming DBZ fighters are light speed or faster, that every blast is a planet busting hit, or that some of them are galaxy busting. Also, the whole power level thing is tedious, as it seems to be entirely divorced from their actual showings.

Also, I found out (at least, I think I did) that alot of the canon rules for DBZ and such are dictated by some DBZ forum (can't remember it's name).

Also, something that has colored my opinion of the DBZ fandom in general is the whole "Akira Toriyama fake interview" thing. It's commonly refered to as proof straight from Akira Toriyama that DBZ fighters are light speed or faster on several parts of the Internet and... it's a fake interview.



For one, I would like to point out that yes... That was a fake interview created by the Daizenshuu website.

I for one am a tremendous fan of DBZ, and yes I admit I sometimes like to yell "RAWR GOKU BEATS ALL!" But only as a joke and say so after, much like the time I said Brolly could beat TLT (Which he can't). But the DBZ fans in general are numb skulls who think Goku really can beat everyone because he is super saiyan and has a power level of OVER 9000!!!

But some that I know of.. Me, Hayes, and Nesh all have argued with the best of them and when we do actually get our point across we get "You're just Ztards!" but hey, fanboys will be fanboys, and people will hate DBZ because it ended a long time ago, yet they will read comics that always overlap the past and say "Oh that never happened." Because that is so much better.

#38 The Technomancer of Nesh

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Posted 13 July 2011 - 03:04 PM

Soberguy can hate all DBZ fans as he likes, as a DBZ fan I don't care. He's a jaded cynical member of the old guard, those guys mock and belittle CBUB in general and not without cause so I'm not going to let it get to me. His bashing on DBZ fans is no worse than CBUB's general bashing of Twilight and he has much the same reasons we do so, pot and kettle.

#39 Guest_Ivan_*

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Posted 13 July 2011 - 04:22 PM

His bashing on DBZ fans is no worse than CBUB's general bashing of Twilight and he has much the same reasons we do so, pot and kettle.


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#40 M Bison

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Posted 13 July 2011 - 04:22 PM

Bad cause it brought shows like Naruto, Death Note, Code Geass etc.

I am enjoying Death Note. :lol: Granted, I've not seen the anime - I enjoy comics as an art form, so I tend to just read the manga and not bother with the cartoon when it comes to the Japanese stuff.

if you look at the old Justice League show, (The WB one) you see the drawings all bland, with everyone having huge chests, square jaws, and little detail.

Don't you be hatin' on Bruce Timm now.

Spoiler

Bah!

Spoiler





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