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#61 bigballerju

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Posted 13 June 2011 - 10:45 PM

Darkseid can react FTL to counter supes but no he cant run or fly that fast. Darkseid is immensily more power strength wise than Superman. He has proven it many times.

Also to echo, is that is the case than no villian will ever win against any hero on CBUB. This site is to compare who would win in an actual fight where comic mechanics wont inhibit a character from using all of his power, or make him forget he has a power. Key example is Sentry, all those powers and he fist fights EVERYONE instead of actually using them. Another is Doom, the power to time travel and conjure just as good as Strange among other great powers and he forgets he has those abilities most the time. Another is Spiderman when his Spider sense seems to fail and he gets hit by a foe much slower like Kraven or Rhino.

Darkseid wins EASILY in a fight with Superman. Their is just too many ways for Supes to die.


LOL ok you got me on the Spiderman and Sentry one.

This site is too see what characters would win against each and we use the comics as canon for those characters. It has never been said we don't use comic canon like Superman can beat Darkseid in the comics.

Funny I have never seen old members here from the old site or administrators say so and so can't beat this person because of comic mechanics.

I'm sure any of the old members and administrators would tell you that. Hell I was on the old site for a year or 2 before it got changed to what it is now.

I would like for Methos to bring up a thread or something where it has been said on CBUB officially by Serge or a administrator we don't use comic canon.

Whether you like it or not here on CBUB Superman can or has beaten the crap out of Darkseid.

Why? Its in the comics.

This whole comic mechanics is stupid and I don't know why all of a sudden people are using it on CBUB. It was never used in the past.

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Posted 13 June 2011 - 11:00 PM

LOL ok you got me on the Spiderman and Sentry one.

This site is too see what characters would win against each and we use the comics as canon for those characters. It has never been said we don't use comic canon like Superman can beat Darkseid in the comics.

Funny I have never seen old members here from the old site or administrators say so and so can't beat this person because of comic mechanics.

I'm sure any of the old members and administrators would tell you that. Hell I was on the old site for a year or 2 before it got changed to what it is now.

I would like for Methos to bring up a thread or something where it has been said on CBUB officially by Serge or a administrator we don't use comic canon.

Whether you like it or not here on CBUB Superman can or has beaten the crap out of Darkseid.

Why? Its in the comics.

This whole comic mechanics is stupid and I don't know why all of a sudden people are using it on CBUB. It was never used in the past.

In that case Puck beats Gladiator, Black Panther beats Silver Surfer, Squirrel Girl beats Thanos, She Hulk beats Sentry, Spiderman beats Firelord, etc. On this site the comic mechanics dont prohibit characters from using there full power. This allows Darkseid to use all abilities given to him by DC. That easily makes him leagues above Superman.

I dont see how some of you dont understand this. Osborn, Doom, Lex Luthor, Thanos, Darkseid, Superboy Prime, so on and so on wil ALWAYS lose simply because they are the bad guys. Not because the heroes are stronger but simply because they are the heroes. The villians are ALWAYS more powerful in one way or another and thats what makes them a threat but when it comes down to the final fight, they forget that have certain powers or the heroes get some sort of "Ace in the Hole" that miraculously allows them to win. While this makes since in the actual comics it doesnt here. This site allows characters to be pitted against one another without the hole hero or villian clause inhibiting them from using there full potential. On CBUB the heroes dont have the luck that miraculously gives them the 1 in a million chance win. This match pits Darkseid with ALL his power and abilities vs Superman with his power and abilities. Now when you look at those two characters, there is no comparison. Superman loses in every category except for speed but when you add in Darkseid being able to teleport it nullyfies the speed anyways.

Darkseid has Supes in Strength, skills, abilities, intellect, and experience.

The comic mechanics wasnt ever brought up because people use to accept it as common knowledge. Lately people seem to think of it as a way to justify there character for winning. If Thanos was Batman's nemesis, in the comic books he would eventually win by finding some miraculous way too. Thats what comic mechanics do for you. Its the hero clause; no matter what happens the hero wins in the end.

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Posted 13 June 2011 - 11:24 PM

all credit for the post below goes to Sirmethos. This is a copy of something he made in the CBUB Character Discussion that explains COMIC MECHANICS

a lot of people don't seem to get it, so i'm posting this in a thread of it's own, so i can simply link to this thread as an explanation.


in comics we have 'Comics Mechanics', which means that there is Always someone who is at an advantage, and others who are at a Disadvantage.

the 'hero' of the comic advantage, which means that the hero always wins. he might get temporarily beaten down once or twice, but sooner or later, he wins.

the 'villain' of the comic Disadvantage, the opposite of the 'hero' advantage

the 'important to the plot' Character sheild, similar to the 'hero' advantage. someone important to the plot will generally win, and prove how extremely powerful they are, until they get beaten in the end. until the Plot is finished, the characters protected by this, will not die. <- Superboy-Prime is an excellent example of this

the 'too powerful to be interesting' disadvantage, a character like Magneto, Apocalyse, Captain Atom, etc. that was created with powers that make them so powerful that using their full powers would end the story in 3 pictures, are generally 'limited' in some way. Captain Atom mentally limits himself, Magneto has his inner struggle, Strong Guy has a weak heart, etc. etc. etc.



when you pick up a comic, let's for the sake of example say it's a Spider-Man comic, then Spider-Man will win whatever fight he gets into, because he has "the 'hero' of the comic advantage", in the same comic, you have Spider-Man fighting against Venon, an opponent who is superior to Spider-Man in pretty much every way. in that comic, Venom Will lose, because he has "the 'villain' of the comic Disadvantage".

it doesn't matter that Venom is superior to Spider-Man, and that he would, in a realistic fight, wipe the floor with him. simply because Spider-Man is the hero, and Venom is the villain.


now, let's take another example:

let's say you pick up another comic, this time, for the sake of the example, it's a Superman comic with Superman fighting Darkseid.

now, aside from the advantage and disadvantage mentioned in the last example, why does Darkseid not use some of his Many stated powers, to simply destroy Superman? Darkseid is a powerful Telepath, he could easily destroy Supermans mind with a single thought, or make him a mindless slave, but why doesn't he do that? Darkseid also has the power to revert the evolutioniary patterns of an organism, which means, in simple terms, that with a single thought, he could transform Superman into a single-cell microbe. but why doesn't he do that?

the answer is that both Darkseid, Captain Atom, Major Force, and any other character even close to those levels of power, are restrained by "the 'too powerful to be interesting' disadvantage", which means, that they will never actually Use their full powers(or anything close to it) during a comic, simply because it would ruin the story, it would make things boring.

no one wants to read a comic with just two pages, showing Captain Atom swoop in and destroy the villain with a single thought, or seeing Superman get turned into an amoeba by Darkseid, they want to see action packed battles, they want to see the hero struggle, and win in the end. they Don't want to see the hero effortlessly take care of all the problems within the first page of the comic, or randomly get beaten by the villain in the span of 2 pictures. However, despite all these things, Darkseid Does have Powerful psionic powers, and the power to revert the evolutionary process of organisms, he Does have the power to travel in time, and a whole list of other powers he pretty much never uses, just as Captain Atom Does have the power to create and destroy a universe, and X-Man Does have nigh-unlimited psionic power.



there is a lot more to Comics Mechanics than i have explained here, but these are the rough basics and should give people a general understanding of what Comics Mechanics actually is.

if it turns out there is a need to explain more, i will add to this thread in the future.



#64 force_echo

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Posted 14 June 2011 - 10:17 AM

Darkseid can react FTL to counter supes but no he cant run or fly that fast. Darkseid is immensily more power strength wise than Superman. He has proven it many times.

Also to echo, is that is the case than no villian will ever win against any hero on CBUB. This site is to compare who would win in an actual fight where comic mechanics wont inhibit a character from using all of his power, or make him forget he has a power. Key example is Sentry, all those powers and he fist fights EVERYONE instead of actually using them. Another is Doom, the power to time travel and conjure just as good as Strange among other great powers and he forgets he has those abilities most the time. Another is Spiderman when his Spider sense seems to fail and he gets hit by a foe much slower like Kraven or Rhino.

Darkseid wins EASILY in a fight with Superman. Their is just too many ways for Supes to die.

No, Darkseid CANNOT react FTL, he was never able to. The best he can react is nanoseconds, impressive, but not FTL. Unless you show me a scan that specifically says Darkseid is moving at FTL, then you're wrong. Darkseid at best, can match Supes strength-wise, not that it matters when Supes has hit him 7,000,000 times before he even knows wtf is happening. And again, no we don;t do fights without comic mechanics, comic characters fight in CBUB EXACTLY as they do in the comics, unless the author specifically says so.

#65 Hayesmeister5651

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Posted 14 June 2011 - 10:23 AM

No, Darkseid CANNOT react FTL, he was never able to. The best he can react is nanoseconds, impressive, but not FTL. Unless you show me a scan that specifically says Darkseid is moving at FTL, then you're wrong. Darkseid at best, can match Supes strength-wise, not that it matters when Supes has hit him 7,000,000 times before he even knows wtf is happening. And again, no we don;t do fights without comic mechanics, comic characters fight in CBUB EXACTLY as they do in the comics, unless the author specifically says so.

Again Darkseid can make a shield out of omega energy that would block the hits.

#66 force_echo

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Posted 14 June 2011 - 10:24 AM

Again Darkseid can make a shield out of omega energy that would block the hits.

And again, since Seid can't react FTL, the fight would be over before he would even register that thought.

#67 Hayesmeister5651

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Posted 14 June 2011 - 11:04 AM

And again, since Seid can't react FTL, the fight would be over before he would even register that thought.

Meh, Darkseid can blast him with the OB and there is no Parademons to hide behind, so that puts Superman down to the ground, he the buses his shields to fight Superman. After Superman realizes he can't get past the shields he knows he needs a sun dip, he goes to race to the sun, but Darkseid say "how about a different sun kryptonian, he teleports Superman into a red sun effectively depowering him. Superman now vulnerable burns to death in the red sun.

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Posted 14 June 2011 - 11:13 AM

No, Darkseid CANNOT react FTL, he was never able to. The best he can react is nanoseconds, impressive, but not FTL. Unless you show me a scan that specifically says Darkseid is moving at FTL, then you're wrong. Darkseid at best, can match Supes strength-wise, not that it matters when Supes has hit him 7,000,000 times before he even knows wtf is happening. And again, no we don;t do fights without comic mechanics, comic characters fight in CBUB EXACTLY as they do in the comics, unless the author specifically says so.

Darkseid has been shown in EVERY battle with Supes to react fast enough to block and land blows. Therefore other than moving at light speed Supes has no advantage and its only defensive because Darkseid has instantaneous reflexes that allow him to fight on par with Supes, but again Darkseid is still superior in every other way.


AGAIN.... name a way Supes can ACTUALLY defeat Darkseid since Seid is superior in all other ways.

#69 bigballerju

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Posted 14 June 2011 - 11:49 AM

Exactly Force Echo the characters are just like they are in the comics and they are the canon we have always used. Its been that way going back to the old site before this site was redo completely.

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Posted 14 June 2011 - 11:51 AM

did you two ignore everything I posted. here it is again thickheads

all credit for the post below goes to Sirmethos. This is a copy of something he made in the CBUB Character Discussion that explains COMIC MECHANICS

a lot of people don't seem to get it, so i'm posting this in a thread of it's own, so i can simply link to this thread as an explanation.


in comics we have 'Comics Mechanics', which means that there is Always someone who is at an advantage, and others who are at a Disadvantage.

the 'hero' of the comic advantage, which means that the hero always wins. he might get temporarily beaten down once or twice, but sooner or later, he wins.

the 'villain' of the comic Disadvantage, the opposite of the 'hero' advantage

the 'important to the plot' Character sheild, similar to the 'hero' advantage. someone important to the plot will generally win, and prove how extremely powerful they are, until they get beaten in the end. until the Plot is finished, the characters protected by this, will not die. <- Superboy-Prime is an excellent example of this

the 'too powerful to be interesting' disadvantage, a character like Magneto, Apocalyse, Captain Atom, etc. that was created with powers that make them so powerful that using their full powers would end the story in 3 pictures, are generally 'limited' in some way. Captain Atom mentally limits himself, Magneto has his inner struggle, Strong Guy has a weak heart, etc. etc. etc.



when you pick up a comic, let's for the sake of example say it's a Spider-Man comic, then Spider-Man will win whatever fight he gets into, because he has "the 'hero' of the comic advantage", in the same comic, you have Spider-Man fighting against Venon, an opponent who is superior to Spider-Man in pretty much every way. in that comic, Venom Will lose, because he has "the 'villain' of the comic Disadvantage".

it doesn't matter that Venom is superior to Spider-Man, and that he would, in a realistic fight, wipe the floor with him. simply because Spider-Man is the hero, and Venom is the villain.


now, let's take another example:

let's say you pick up another comic, this time, for the sake of the example, it's a Superman comic with Superman fighting Darkseid.

now, aside from the advantage and disadvantage mentioned in the last example, why does Darkseid not use some of his Many stated powers, to simply destroy Superman? Darkseid is a powerful Telepath, he could easily destroy Supermans mind with a single thought, or make him a mindless slave, but why doesn't he do that? Darkseid also has the power to revert the evolutioniary patterns of an organism, which means, in simple terms, that with a single thought, he could transform Superman into a single-cell microbe. but why doesn't he do that?

the answer is that both Darkseid, Captain Atom, Major Force, and any other character even close to those levels of power, are restrained by "the 'too powerful to be interesting' disadvantage", which means, that they will never actually Use their full powers(or anything close to it) during a comic, simply because it would ruin the story, it would make things boring.

no one wants to read a comic with just two pages, showing Captain Atom swoop in and destroy the villain with a single thought, or seeing Superman get turned into an amoeba by Darkseid, they want to see action packed battles, they want to see the hero struggle, and win in the end. they Don't want to see the hero effortlessly take care of all the problems within the first page of the comic, or randomly get beaten by the villain in the span of 2 pictures. However, despite all these things, Darkseid Does have Powerful psionic powers, and the power to revert the evolutionary process of organisms, he Does have the power to travel in time, and a whole list of other powers he pretty much never uses, just as Captain Atom Does have the power to create and destroy a universe, and X-Man Does have nigh-unlimited psionic power.



there is a lot more to Comics Mechanics than i have explained here, but these are the rough basics and should give people a general understanding of what Comics Mechanics actually is.

if it turns out there is a need to explain more, i will add to this thread in the future.


In that case Puck beats Gladiator, Black Panther beats Silver Surfer, Squirrel Girl beats Thanos, She Hulk beats Sentry, Spiderman beats Firelord, etc. On this site the comic mechanics dont prohibit characters from using there full power. This allows Darkseid to use all abilities given to him by DC. That easily makes him leagues above Superman.

I dont see how some of you dont understand this. Osborn, Doom, Lex Luthor, Thanos, Darkseid, Superboy Prime, so on and so on wil ALWAYS lose simply because they are the bad guys. Not because the heroes are stronger but simply because they are the heroes. The villians are ALWAYS more powerful in one way or another and thats what makes them a threat but when it comes down to the final fight, they forget that have certain powers or the heroes get some sort of "Ace in the Hole" that miraculously allows them to win. While this makes since in the actual comics it doesnt here. This site allows characters to be pitted against one another without the hole hero or villian clause inhibiting them from using there full potential. On CBUB the heroes dont have the luck that miraculously gives them the 1 in a million chance win. This match pits Darkseid with ALL his power and abilities vs Superman with his power and abilities. Now when you look at those two characters, there is no comparison. Superman loses in every category except for speed but when you add in Darkseid being able to teleport it nullyfies the speed anyways.

Darkseid has Supes in Strength, skills, abilities, intellect, and experience.

The comic mechanics wasnt ever brought up because people use to accept it as common knowledge. Lately people seem to think of it as a way to justify there character for winning. If Thanos was Batman's nemesis, in the comic books he would eventually win by finding some miraculous way too. Thats what comic mechanics do for you. Its the hero clause; no matter what happens the hero wins in the end.

#71 bigballerju

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Posted 14 June 2011 - 12:56 PM

Did you ignore what we said?

Force Echo just told you whatever powers and the way the character acts in the comics is what we use here on CBUB.

So yea whether you like it or not Black Panther put Silver Surfer in a hold he couldn't break. They didn't have a real fight so enough. This is how it has always been so enough of this. Superman just like the comics on CBUB has beaten the crap out of Darkseid.

You and Methos keep twisting comic mechanics.

Here on cbub we use the characters and all there history from the comics because thats where they come from. Your good guys always win is bullshit and thats not always the case. Thats why there stories that explain how the hero wins or alot of times how the hero fails. If comics were really like that you wouldn't have all the heroes who died in Infinite Crisis.

Let me put it plain and simple..............

You and others are twisting comic mechanics to say Darkseid would beat Superman without comic mechanics or any other fight.

Without comic mechanics doesn't mean erasing the history of the characters and what stands. It doesn't mean Venom would destroy Spiderman without it if you dropped them in a arena. Spiderman will always beat Venom from there history of knowing how each other is in the comics and Superman will always beat able to beat Darkseid.

#72 force_echo

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Posted 14 June 2011 - 01:00 PM

Meh, Darkseid can blast him with the OB and there is no Parademons to hide behind, so that puts Superman down to the ground, he the buses his shields to fight Superman. After Superman realizes he can't get past the shields he knows he needs a sun dip, he goes to race to the sun, but Darkseid say "how about a different sun kryptonian, he teleports Superman into a red sun effectively depowering him. Superman now vulnerable burns to death in the red sun.

I repeat what I've said two times now, because you obviously don;'t have the mental capability to understand. Supes is so far vastly faster than Seid is, he can end the fight before Seid even knows that there IS a fight. Seid dosen't have instant reflexes, look at the wiki, he has nanosecond reflexes. Fast for sure, but not against soemone who can casually move FTL. Falcon, unless you have evidence to prove your claim to instant reflexes, its a bunch of bullshit.

Also Falcon, you're retarded. First off, stop using Sirmethos to structure your argument, second off, there's a difference between PIS and Comic MEchanics. PIS are one shot freak occurances, Comic MEchanics is 90% of the battles in the entire freaking comicverse. Entire characters like Cap are made of comic mechanics. Go to any other comic site like CBUB: Project Fanboy, Comicvine, anything, and ask them if they know about comic mechanics. Its nonexistant. Why don't you actually read some comics once in a while. The hero wins because he is smarter, the hero wins because he is more resourceful, the hero wins because he has more willpower. It happens in the comics, this is the COMIC BOOK universe battles, so make peace with it, its just how it is.

EDIT: I suggest you listen to Bigballer about how CBUB is supposed to be, he's been here longer than you and Methos combined.

#73 Hayesmeister5651

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Posted 14 June 2011 - 01:05 PM

I repeat what I've said two times now, because you obviously don;'t have the mental capability to understand. Supes is so far vastly faster than Seid is, he can end the fight before Seid even knows that there IS a fight. Seid dosen't have instant reflexes, look at the wiki, he has nanosecond reflexes. Fast for sure, but not against soemone who can casually move FTL.

I'm going to tell you this once, don't *vulgarity*ing try to insult me when I haven't said shit like that to you, unless you would say it to me face to face, don't say it on the internet. Do unto others what you want done to yourself.

As for the fight, if Superman is as fast as you are saying then why has he been hit with the OB several times?

#74 force_echo

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Posted 14 June 2011 - 01:09 PM

I'm going to tell you this once, don't *vulgarity*ing try to insult me when I haven't said shit like that to you, unless you would say it to me face to face, don't say it on the internet. Do unto others what you want done to yourself.

As for the fight, if Superman is as fast as you are saying then why has he been hit with the OB several times?

That really dosen't hold any weight, because I would say the same thing to you face to face. I don;t like reiterating the same points over and over again.

Because, like Darkseid never uses "his other powers" as you claim, Supes almost never fights FTL.

#75 Hayesmeister5651

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Posted 14 June 2011 - 01:14 PM

That really dosen't hold any weight, because I would say the same thing to you face to face. I don;t like reiterating the same points over and over again.

Because, like Darkseid never uses "his other powers" as you claim, Supes almost never fights FTL.

Heh, that would be fun

So Superman rarely fights FTL but your plan is that Superman hits him at FTL?

#76 force_echo

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Posted 14 June 2011 - 01:24 PM

Heh, that would be fun

So Superman rarely fights FTL but your plan is that Superman hits him at FTL?

I feel like we've just switched sides in the debate. You guys say Seid never uses any powers excpet his physicals and thats why he loses to Superman. But when I do the same thing you guys turn around and say what i said in the first place? Ok, its either both use all the powers they have, or both use the pwoers they regularly show in comics when fighting eachother. You can;t pick and choose when something benefits your argument.

#77 Jaeger Panzer

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Posted 14 June 2011 - 01:35 PM

*Insults everyone on this thread*

Besides that, Superman IS capable of beating Darkseid. Its called Sun Dipping. :P

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Posted 14 June 2011 - 01:41 PM

*Insults everyone on this thread*

Besides that, Superman IS capable of beating Darkseid. Its called Sun Dipping. :P

but this is a fight between the two with no outside power ups. I agree Superman can beat Darkseid physically if he sun dips but he would never get the chance.

Bigballerju and echo cant seem to comprehend how comic books work and that the heroes always win in the comics because thats the way its suppose to be. Here on CBUB the characters arent limited by the comic mechanics that prevent them from accessing all their powers. Superman can move FTL but Darkseid has instantaneous reflexes that allows him to counter it.

Can someone give me and example of where Superman actually beat Darkseid WITHOUT any outside interference? Has he ever actually beaten him in a one on on battle. Even when he sundipped in Superman/Batman: Supergirl he could kill him and had to trap him in the Source Wall. It wont work again because Darkseid wont allow it being a tacticle genius.

#79 Hayesmeister5651

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Posted 14 June 2011 - 01:47 PM

I feel like we've just switched sides in the debate. You guys say Seid never uses any powers excpet his physicals and thats why he loses to Superman. But when I do the same thing you guys turn around and say what i said in the first place? Ok, its either both use all the powers they have, or both use the pwoers they regularly show in comics when fighting eachother. You can;t pick and choose when something benefits your argument.

When I made this i had the intention of it being a brawl, so yes they can use any power, I never said they could not. I for one understand comic mechanics, but that doesn't mean the characters should be OOC. So when someone says "Superman sun dips and then wins" I would reply when has Superman straight up done that? That is not his character someone like Darkseid who is ruthless can and will do anything to win.


So you said he almost never fights at FTL. We have seen Darkseid teleport Superman, hit him with OBs, and use omega energy as a shield. So when Superman flys at Darkseid in a blur (not at FTL since you said he rarely does) Darkseid will swat him away(he have seen this several times), he then blasts him with the OB which puts him to his knees(which we have seen). Superman then realizes he is mad to try and fight Darkseid (which Superman has said before) he then realizes he needs to sun dip, he flees, but DS teleports him into a red sun, the end. Don't get ME (not everyone is me) wrong I take into account what has happened in the canon timeline, so Panther putting Surfer in a head lock has happened, but will it happen outside a comic? No it will not. If the power level wasn't so vast, like if Panther put Spidey in a lock, that I would not have a problem with.

#80 Guest_Falcon_*

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Posted 14 June 2011 - 01:51 PM

I repeat what I've said two times now, because you obviously don;'t have the mental capability to understand. Supes is so far vastly faster than Seid is, he can end the fight before Seid even knows that there IS a fight. Seid dosen't have instant reflexes, look at the wiki, he has nanosecond reflexes. Fast for sure, but not against soemone who can casually move FTL. Falcon, unless you have evidence to prove your claim to instant reflexes, its a bunch of bullshit.

He fights and reacts to Superman in every encounter and deflects and lands blows

Also Falcon, you're retarded. First off, stop using Sirmethos to structure your argument, second off, there's a difference between PIS and Comic MEchanics. PIS are one shot freak occurances, Comic MEchanics is 90% of the battles in the entire freaking comicverse. Entire characters like Cap are made of comic mechanics. Go to any other comic site like CBUB: Project Fanboy, Comicvine, anything, and ask them if they know about comic mechanics. Its nonexistant. Why don't you actually read some comics once in a while. The hero wins because he is smarter, the hero wins because he is more resourceful, the hero wins because he has more willpower. It happens in the comics, this is the COMIC BOOK universe battles, so make peace with it, its just how it is.

Im not basing my facts off of sirmethos. I showed you sirmethos' dumbed down version so maybe you would understand.... evidently not, figures

EDIT: I suggest you listen to Bigballer about how CBUB is supposed to be, he's been here longer than you and Methos combined.

and thats why the admins labeled him clueless under his avatar. Guess your next.






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