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Death Star vs. 3 Battlebarges


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#21 the atom

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Posted 06 May 2011 - 06:16 PM

The SM's have a map of the area why and how?

Immediately, because the Imperial Navymen, unlike the invading SMs, can simply call up any section and say "Hey, we have enemy invaders in Sector 7G, we can't repel them. Jettison the block."



Right, you mean you'd have to have the psyker read the mind of a crew member to find out who his boss is... and then read his boss' mind to find out who is his boss, and so on and so forth.

BTW you still haven't presented evidence that this is a standard battle tactic or examples of their scans working through jamming fields or being so accurate.

BTW how far out can the Terminator squads teleport? Because the Death Star, during the Battle of Despayre fired on the Fortessa from a distance of 2,209 km.



Until the area is jettisoned into space.



Without specifics I have no way of knowing if this was smilar or not. Oh wait, I just read about it. The World Engine was already known by the IoM, they had enough info to deduce that a regular attack would not work, and sacrificed a Battle Barge to destroy land the Space Marines, and then used the Imperial Navy to actually finish the job.


They don't need a map of the area. All they need to do is get a general idea of where the populated areas are and smash through with boarding torpedoes.

With hundreds being deployed all at once, ejecting every section they land in would be difficult. The storm troopers would not slow the SMs down in the slightest. The transmission would go like this: "We have invaders in section 7G. Jettison the bl-What?? they moved to sector-hold on they split up....." and so on and so forth. The doctrine of the SMs is lighting warfare, moving faster then the enemy can react. At what depth can they jettison sections anyways?

With 20-30 psykers working at once it would be fairly quickly. all you need to do is to find someone who knows how, or knows someone who can, switch off the shields, or the super laser. Once again the DS's critical systems are the ones giving off the most energy and would be fairly easy to locate. If it wasn't standard battle tactic, they wouldn't do so well in space battles now would they? Any ship generally need an idea of what they need to shoot, otherwise they go down easily.

The terminators can teleport from high orbit, which is in the neighbourhood of 5753.9 miles or so, which should be sufficient.

Once again, how many levels down are the DS able to jettison and how long would it take? There's really nothing on board the DS that would pose much more then a negligible distraction to the terminator.

And I actually just remembered one other little trick librarians have up their sleeves. Machine Curse. Working together they could shut down nearly any mechanical device they wanted to. I doubt this would extend to massive structures such as the power core or the super laser, They could just as easily shut down anything onboard that the SMs could specify, such as the mechanisms that jettison sections, blast doors, life support systems and so on and so forth.

Also remember how they destroyed the World Engine in the first place. Should all else fail, they can always smash the ship into the DS and deploy every soldier on the ship. The ship itself would be damaged beyond all repair, but in the end the DS would be annihilated from the inside out by a legion of invincible super soldier.

#22 the atom

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Posted 06 May 2011 - 06:23 PM

Or, to put it in a shorter words, because these long typing sessions are getting annoying.

Prove:
The distance that Space Marines or Terminators can be deployed.
That psykers can read minds mid battle.
That psykers mind control people mid battle.
Scans from IoM ships are accurate enough to distinguish important areas.

BTW: what positions do psykers serve aboard Imperial ships, particularly Battle Barges? I can guess at Navigator and Astropath, but what else? I see that a High Alpha level psyker can read minds of a small town, but at what level do they start doing that?


Done
The psykers aren't in battle remember? They're sitting on their ships relatively protected.
Once again, they themselves aren't in battle.
On the DS important areas translates over to stupidly massive power source. Any ship that can't get a so much as a basic outline of location these critical areas, jamming or not, has no business calling itself a warship, let alone a warship of the imperium.

#23 Ruinus

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Posted 06 May 2011 - 07:13 PM

I'm noticing a distinct lack of links in that post that show that psykers can read minds, or control minds.

Also, no the important areas on the DS aren't power sources. The DS has a central reactor and several peripherary fuel sources. Why you think the important areas are glowing more than any of the massive machinery is beyond me.

#24 the atom

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Posted 06 May 2011 - 08:05 PM

I'm noticing a distinct lack of links in that post that show that psykers can read minds, or control minds.

Also, no the important areas on the DS aren't power sources. The DS has a central reactor and several peripherary fuel sources. Why you think the important areas are glowing more than any of the massive machinery is beyond me.


Reading and controlling minds are practically staples of librarians. If you don't believe me here's some links.

http://warhammer40k..../wiki/Librarian
http://warhammer40k....com/wiki/Psyker

What? You mean the core and it's major systems aren't major power sources? As in the thing that's POWERING the entire damn station? Or what about the super laser, the thing that's rapidly gaining in energy? Yeah those would be sure hard to find. Another nifty trick of librarians is that they can project their conciseness to see nearly anything no matter how obstructed. Something like a the super laser control room or the shield generators would be easy to spot.

#25 Ruinus

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Posted 06 May 2011 - 08:29 PM

Reading and controlling minds are practically staples of librarians. If you don't believe me here's some links.

http://warhammer40k..../wiki/Librarian
http://warhammer40k....com/wiki/Psyker


It says Librarians can read minds, doesn't say over what distance.

What? You mean the core and it's major systems aren't major power sources? As in the thing that's POWERING the entire damn station? Or what about the super laser, the thing that's rapidly gaining in energy? Yeah those would be sure hard to find. Another nifty trick of librarians is that they can project their conciseness to see nearly anything no matter how obstructed. Something like a the super laser control room or the shield generators would be easy to spot.


No, I mean the only things that are going to show up in energy scans are the giant reactor. Everything else draws energy from the reactor, so a control room wouldn't show up more than, say, a turbo laser battery, a tractor beam generator, or a shield generator.

Also, how would the Librarian find the super laser control room so fast out of the entire 160 km wide battle station?

#26 the atom

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Posted 06 May 2011 - 08:53 PM

It says Librarians can read minds, doesn't say over what distance.



No, I mean the only things that are going to show up in energy scans are the giant reactor. Everything else draws energy from the reactor, so a control room wouldn't show up more than, say, a turbo laser battery, a tractor beam generator, or a shield generator.

Also, how would the Librarian find the super laser control room so fast out of the entire 160 km wide battle station?


You seem to hold the 40k librarians and psykers to insanely high standards. There's nothing that says the specific range of a librarian's mind reading or controlling abilities. However it is stated in the links i gave you that LIBRARIANS can project their conciseness over LIGHT YEARS. So it's a fairly safe to assume that even a mid level librarian would have no troubles reading some weak willed engineer's thoughts or making a technician flip a few switches.

I never said a control room would be visible, but anything drawing large amounts of power like the super laser would. Logic follows that any control rooms would be located in some logical fashion from this structure.
Librarians can project their conciseness across lightyears, so looking through a battle station that's 160 km in diameter wouldn't take long, especially if they knew the general area of the control rooms.

Just think of this. The average Librarian is easily 100x as powerful as Darth Vader. If Darth Vader can throttle some imperial officer that is located x amount of lightyears away from him with little apparent effort, a librarian could certainly do much much worse.

#27 Ruinus

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Posted 06 May 2011 - 09:13 PM

You seem to hold the 40k librarians and psykers to insanely high standards. There's nothing that says the specific range of a librarian's mind reading or controlling abilities. However it is stated in the links i gave you that LIBRARIANS can project their conciseness over LIGHT YEARS. So it's a fairly safe to assume that even a mid level librarian would have no troubles reading some weak willed engineer's thoughts or making a technician flip a few switches.



No, I'm not holding them to high standards. I'm simply looking for the evidence that supports your argument that they'll do what you say they'll do.

Erm, what? Where does it say they project their consciousness over light years? The word "light" appears once in the Librarian article, and only for the word "lightning" and it appears four times in the Psyker article, and that's because Psykers can speak to each other over light years through the Warp.

I never said a control room would be visible, but anything drawing large amounts of power like the super laser would. Logic follows that any control rooms would be located in some logical fashion from this structure.


The super laser would, but why would the super laser control room? Or the commander center? Also, there are 8 different areas where the beam travels through, and IF the super laser is charging up then that means that it's about to fire. If it's about to fire, then one of those ships will be destroyed.

Librarians can project their conciseness across lightyears, so looking through a battle station that's 160 km in diameter wouldn't take long, especially if they knew the general area of the control rooms.


It says:
"Librarians are capable of telepathic communication across vast distances"
This isn't the same as "Librarians can read minds across vast distances". After all, psykers have stronger warp presences than normal people don't they?

Where does it say they can send their consciousness the same distance? Also again, how would they know the general idea of the control rooms? Hell, the Super Laser control room is somewhere in Theta Sector, which could be anywhere on the Death Star.

Just think of this. The average Librarian is easily 100x as powerful as Darth Vader. If Darth Vader can throttle some imperial officer that is located x amount of lightyears away from him with little apparent effort, a librarian could certainly do much much worse.


Except Darth Vader knew where his officer was, the Librarians don't.

#28 Guest_corax_*

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Posted 29 April 2012 - 06:09 PM

or i one of the battlebarges belonged to the raven guard they would aproach the deathstar undetected with their cloaking enabled, open a warp rift and drag the deathstar into the warp. as the death star does not have a a gellar field everone inside would be consumed by daemons.

#29 Gastrolobium velutinum

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Posted 01 June 2013 - 08:50 AM

I joined this site to comment here, so bear with me if this comes out clunky

this one kinda went off track.
the question was "could 3 battle barges beat the deathstar".

even as a HUGE 40K fan the answer is no.

It would take a several Retribution class battleships supported by Overlord and Mars class battlecruisers to do that in ship to ship combat.
please remember that battle barges are designed more for delivering Space Marines to a planets surface (or another ship) than ship to ship combat.

As to a few Boo Boos in the previous posts

1) Individuals in the warhammer universe cannot teleport without a "telport homer" at the target location (despite what is shown in the DOW games)
http://warhammer40k..../Teleport_Homer

2) Psykers CAN manipulate thoughts in others. the inquisitor Ramius Stele planted suggestion and suspision in the mind of an interogating librarian in the book dues encarmine. (unable to find online reference) so a clever psyker could manipulate people on the DS

3) force sensitives in the SW unives are capable of "psykic war" as demonstrated by kyp durron, when he removed the knowledge of how the "sun crusher" was built from the mind of it's primary reseacher Qui Xux. Darth Vader strangling someone through a vid screen in the equivilant of him twitching a finger. Therefore force sensatives (present on both DS) can shield critical info from the probes of the SM librarians.

3) Jetisoning an area of the DS would have little to not effect (if the SM managed to get aboard) as SM have sealed battle suits with internal air systems that last a considerable time and a "mag lock" function on thier boots. this is demonstated in the battle between members of the blood angels and lictor "sharks" in the book dues sanguinius

As to the argument about a force sensative vs librarian/psyker. I'm leaving that one well alone, particlarly as immaterium of the warp is not present in the SW universe and i'm not sure if mitichlorians would have any affect in the DOW universe.



#30 kainboa

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Posted 01 June 2013 - 09:32 AM

Holy thread necromancing batman!

 

I'll just steal/modify the immortal words of DSkillz.

 

 

Welcome to electricferret, Gastrolobium velutinum. It's good to see you're trying to get into the conversation. The one on this match, however, ended more than two years ago, so if you want to continue it, it might be best if you start a fresh topic on the matter. 



#31 skadoosh

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Posted 02 June 2013 - 05:09 PM

The Death Star probably wins this, but if there were a few more Battlebarges i imagine they could take it down.






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