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Thor & Superman VS All


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#41 sirmethos

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Posted 14 February 2011 - 07:22 PM

how is Aquaman a weakass?

he's just as powerful as Namor, if not more so.

#42 bigballerju

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Posted 15 February 2011 - 08:55 AM

No Aquaman is not on Namor's level.

Namor has battled some heavyweights in Marvel like the original Human Torch ( Not Johnny Storm the first one), Fantastic Four, the X-Men, Hulk, and more.

#43 sirmethos

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Posted 15 February 2011 - 12:34 PM

No Aquaman is not on Namor's level.

Namor has battled some heavyweights in Marvel like the original Human Torch ( Not Johnny Storm the first one), Fantastic Four, the X-Men, Hulk, and more.



they have the same powers: Strength, Speed, Durability, Telepathy, etc. the only real difference in Which powers they have, is that Namor can fly, which Aquaman can not, and Aquaman has echo-location, while Namor does not.


Strength: Namor has some pretty awesome feats, but none that Aquaman can't match. both have on several occasions lifted several thousand tons.

Speed: Namor is fast, being able to swim at 75 knots, but Aquaman is a LOT faster, he's been seen more than once, swimming at speeds close to 20 thousand knots.

Durability: about even, Namor has taken blows from people like Hulk, and energy blasts from some pretty hardcore people. while Aquaman has taken blows from people like Triton(an olympian god) and later on, Triton again, this time with the added powers of Poseidon, as well as a mind-controlled Superman. and taken energy blasts from people like Amazo(copying Supermans heat vision).


as i said, Aquaman is easily Namor's equal. if he isn't more powerful.

#44 bigballerju

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Posted 15 February 2011 - 12:43 PM

Maybe its just that Aquaman is rarely shown and given a chance to show what he can do.

I know you have told me he has taken shots but he has never actually fought powerful foes like Namor has.

That is what I mean.

I know he is very powerful but we don't know if he could even hang with someone like a Hulk, Original Human Torch, and more like Namor has.

That is my problem with him maybe he can but DC doesn't show it.

#45 sirmethos

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Posted 15 February 2011 - 03:57 PM

Maybe its just that Aquaman is rarely shown and given a chance to show what he can do.

I know you have told me he has taken shots but he has never actually fought powerful foes like Namor has.

That is what I mean.

I know he is very powerful but we don't know if he could even hang with someone like a Hulk, Original Human Torch, and more like Namor has.

That is my problem with him maybe he can but DC doesn't show it.



he held his own against a mindcontrolled Superman for quite a while, and he knocked down Martian Manhunter with a single punch.


he's fought some extremely powerful characters, like Triton with the added powers of Poseidon, or the Millenium Giants. he also held his own against Lobo for a while, after losing his hand(before getting the Harpoon).

#46 Hayesmeister5651

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Posted 15 February 2011 - 04:52 PM

Maybe its just that Aquaman is rarely shown and given a chance to show what he can do.

I know you have told me he has taken shots but he has never actually fought powerful foes like Namor has.

That is what I mean.

I know he is very powerful but we don't know if he could even hang with someone like a Hulk, Original Human Torch, and more like Namor has.

That is my problem with him maybe he can but DC doesn't show it.

Aquaman is definetly under rated, people make him out to be lame but he isnt that bad of a chracter, I wouldnt have put him in this if I felt he'd easily get crushed

#47 God-Speed_88

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Posted 15 February 2011 - 08:06 PM

why would i mention something that is painfully obvious?


as i've mentioned several times in comics we have 'Comics Mechanics', which means that there is Always someone who is at an advantage, and others who are at a Disadvantage.

the 'hero' of the comic advantage, which means that the hero always wins. he might get temporarily beaten down once or twice, but sooner or later, he wins.

the 'villain' of the comic Disadvantage, the opposite of the 'hero' advantage

the 'important to the plot' Character sheild, similar to the 'hero' advantage. someone important to the plot will generally win, and prove how extremely powerful they are, until they get beaten in the end. until the Plot is finished, the characters protected by this, will not die. <- Superboy-Prime is an excellent example of this

the 'too powerful to be interesting' disadvantage, a character like Magneto, Apocalyse, Captain Atom, etc. that was created with powers that make them so powerful that using their full powers would end the story in 3 pictures, are generally 'limited' in some way. Captain Atom mentally limits himself, Magneto has his inner struggle, Strong Guy has a weak heart, etc. etc. etc.


so, with Monarch and Superboy-Prime, we had two Obscenely powerful characters(both limited because they were too powerful to make for an interesting story, if they were at full power), and one of them is protected by 'important to the plot' Character shield. who do You think wins? the entire point of the plot was to show how powerful Superboy-Prime was, climaxing at the Retcon punch, before he was stripped of his powers and put aside for later use.




as for "I love how you ignored every other correct point I made."

if you can point out which 'correct points' you actually made, i'll be more than happy to address them.


Imperiex Prime was defeated by Darkseid and Steel opening a Temporal Boomtube, and Superman pushing Warworld through the boomtube, sending Imperiex(and brainiac) back to the Big Bang, everything before that was a dramatic delay to show how powerful Imperiex and the others actually were, until they came up with their plan to defeat him.


and yes, people can use Feats, as long as they keep in mind that these fights don't actually take place in the comics, and thus don't fall under the rules of the comics(see the list above, among others).

in these fights, Spider-Man is not going to suddenly lift 30 or more tons because the story needs him to do so, Thor is not going to be limited to 100 tons strength, just because it would be boring if he uses his full strength, etc. etc.


All I'm saying is Atom has never shown anything near that level of power. It's ridiculous to use it in an argument, because by that theory he could defeat Galactus on a whim.

Monarch was bust open, surely if one Cap can will a universe, the power of 52 would be indestructible.

Have you read Generation Lost? He isn't exactly that powerful.

To be honest I would like to read the whole issue, do you have the name please? Or did you just pull the scan from the internet?

You have no support to say that Cap has used that level (or anything close) of power in a fight.

If Cap was that strong why didn't he just will away Parallax, Imperiex, Doomsday or any other threat.

Also how could Kyle Rayner kill Major Force.

Your scan is null void.

#48 sirmethos

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Posted 15 February 2011 - 09:07 PM

All I'm saying is Atom has never shown anything near that level of power. It's ridiculous to use it in an argument, because by that theory he could defeat Galactus on a whim.

Monarch was bust open, surely if one Cap can will a universe, the power of 52 would be indestructible.

Have you read Generation Lost? He isn't exactly that powerful.

To be honest I would like to read the whole issue, do you have the name please? Or did you just pull the scan from the internet?

You have no support to say that Cap has used that level (or anything close) of power in a fight.

If Cap was that strong why didn't he just will away Parallax, Imperiex, Doomsday or any other threat.

Also how could Kyle Rayner kill Major Force.

Your scan is null void.



when have i ever said, that he has used that power level in a fight?

quite the contrary, i have specifically said that he has not used that level of power, because he mentally limits himself(directly stated by DC), due to Comics Mechanics. ie. "the 'too powerful to be interesting' disadvantage".

as for Monarch being busted open, if you've actually read the comic with his fight against Superboy-Prime, even SBP, the(physically) most powerful being in the DC universe, wasn't able to damage him, until Monarch himself had damaged his own armor first.


also, how is my scan "null void" ? it Directly disproved a statement you made:

Cap Atom DIDN'T even create a whole other universe.


something you seem to have conveniently forgotten or ignored.



"why didn't he will away Parallax, Imperiex, Doomsday or any other threat?"

"also how could Kyle kill Major Force."

are you purposely ignoring everything i post?


i'll repeat it then, and try to explain it for the slow readers:

in comics we have 'Comics Mechanics', which means that there is Always someone who is at an advantage, and others who are at a Disadvantage.

the 'hero' of the comic advantage, which means that the hero always wins. he might get temporarily beaten down once or twice, but sooner or later, he wins.

the 'villain' of the comic Disadvantage, the opposite of the 'hero' advantage

the 'important to the plot' Character sheild, similar to the 'hero' advantage. someone important to the plot will generally win, and prove how extremely powerful they are, until they get beaten in the end. until the Plot is finished, the characters protected by this, will not die. <- Superboy-Prime is an excellent example of this

the 'too powerful to be interesting' disadvantage, a character like Magneto, Apocalyse, Captain Atom, etc. that was created with powers that make them so powerful that using their full powers would end the story in 3 pictures, are generally 'limited' in some way. Captain Atom mentally limits himself, Magneto has his inner struggle, Strong Guy has a weak heart, etc. etc. etc.



when you pick up a comic, let's for the sake of example say it's a Spider-Man comic, then Spider-Man will win whatever fight he gets into, because he has "the 'hero' of the comic advantage", in the same comic, you have Spider-Man fighting against Venon, an opponent who is superior to Spider-Man in pretty much every way. in that comic, Venom Will lose, because he has "the 'villain' of the comic Disadvantage".

it doesn't matter that Venom is superior to Spider-Man, and that he would, in a realistic fight, wipe the floor with him. simply because Spider-Man is the hero, and Venom is the villain.



now, let's take another example:

let's say you pick up another comic, this time, for the sake of the example, it's a Superman comic with Superman fighting Darkseid.

now, aside from the advantage and disadvantage mentioned in the last example, why does Darkseid not use some of his Many stated powers, to simply destroy Superman? Darkseid is a powerful Telepath, he could easily destroy Supermans mind with a single thought, or make him a mindless slave, but why doesn't he do that? Darkseid also has the power to revert the evolutioniary patterns of an organism, which means, in simple terms, that with a single thought, he could transform Superman into a single-cell microbe. but why doesn't he do that?

the answer, is the same as the answer to your rather inane questions. both Darkseid, Captain Atom, Major Force, and any other character even close to those levels of power, are restrained by "the 'too powerful to be interesting' disadvantage", which means, that they will never actually Use their full powers(or anything close to it) during a comic, simply because it would ruin the story, it would make things boring.

no one wants to read a comic with just two pages, showing Captain Atom swoop in and destroy the villain with a single thought, they want to see action packed battles, they want to see the hero struggle. they Don't want to see the hero effortlessly take care of all the problems within the first page of the comic. however, despite all these things, Darkseid Does have Powerful psionic powers, and the power to revert the evolutionary process of organisms, he Does have the power to travel in time, and a whole list of other powers he pretty much never uses, just as Captain Atom Does have the power to create and destroy a universe.



let me know if you're still having trouble comprehending the concept and i'll try to explain it in simpler terms and smaller words.

#49 The Dark Prince

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Posted 10 March 2011 - 11:35 AM

Dude , heyesmiester, VEGETA NEVER GOES SSJ3!!!!! Only Goku and gotenks go ssj3 vegeta is limite to ssj2 (becuz ssj4 is non canon)

#50 shellsbut

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Posted 10 March 2011 - 04:02 PM

wow this never ends. you have some good matchups with a few really close calls.

#51 Hayesmeister5651

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Posted 10 March 2011 - 04:54 PM

Dude , heyesmiester, VEGETA NEVER GOES SSJ3!!!!! Only Goku and gotenks go ssj3 vegeta is limite to ssj2 (becuz ssj4 is non canon)

I'm well aware of that, if I put Vegeta anything lower then SS3 he'd get owned

#52 xman4life

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Posted 11 March 2011 - 12:21 AM

Ok well number one Thor doesnt use his full potential and why? Because if he did then he wouldnt be worthy to hold his own hammer and therefore he wouldnt be "just" anymore. He could easily destroy 90 percent of the people in marvel with one blow. Thor really doesnt get his respect he deserves. his abilites are crazy from teleporting, flying ftl, absorbing energy through the hammer, he can even use magic but doesnt, his reflexes are fast enough he has stopped bullets and has caught qucksilver multiple times and even said he has faced people faster than qiuck silver and qucksilver is preeeeeeeeety damn fast.

#53 force_echo

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Posted 11 March 2011 - 05:27 PM

when have i ever said, that he has used that power level in a fight?

quite the contrary, i have specifically said that he has not used that level of power, because he mentally limits himself(directly stated by DC), due to Comics Mechanics. ie. "the 'too powerful to be interesting' disadvantage".

as for Monarch being busted open, if you've actually read the comic with his fight against Superboy-Prime, even SBP, the(physically) most powerful being in the DC universe, wasn't able to damage him, until Monarch himself had damaged his own armor first.


also, how is my scan "null void" ? it Directly disproved a statement you made:

something you seem to have conveniently forgotten or ignored.



"why didn't he will away Parallax, Imperiex, Doomsday or any other threat?"

"also how could Kyle kill Major Force."

are you purposely ignoring everything i post?


i'll repeat it then, and try to explain it for the slow readers:




when you pick up a comic, let's for the sake of example say it's a Spider-Man comic, then Spider-Man will win whatever fight he gets into, because he has "the 'hero' of the comic advantage", in the same comic, you have Spider-Man fighting against Venon, an opponent who is superior to Spider-Man in pretty much every way. in that comic, Venom Will lose, because he has "the 'villain' of the comic Disadvantage".

it doesn't matter that Venom is superior to Spider-Man, and that he would, in a realistic fight, wipe the floor with him. simply because Spider-Man is the hero, and Venom is the villain.



now, let's take another example:

let's say you pick up another comic, this time, for the sake of the example, it's a Superman comic with Superman fighting Darkseid.

now, aside from the advantage and disadvantage mentioned in the last example, why does Darkseid not use some of his Many stated powers, to simply destroy Superman? Darkseid is a powerful Telepath, he could easily destroy Supermans mind with a single thought, or make him a mindless slave, but why doesn't he do that? Darkseid also has the power to revert the evolutioniary patterns of an organism, which means, in simple terms, that with a single thought, he could transform Superman into a single-cell microbe. but why doesn't he do that?

the answer, is the same as the answer to your rather inane questions. both Darkseid, Captain Atom, Major Force, and any other character even close to those levels of power, are restrained by "the 'too powerful to be interesting' disadvantage", which means, that they will never actually Use their full powers(or anything close to it) during a comic, simply because it would ruin the story, it would make things boring.

no one wants to read a comic with just two pages, showing Captain Atom swoop in and destroy the villain with a single thought, they want to see action packed battles, they want to see the hero struggle. they Don't want to see the hero effortlessly take care of all the problems within the first page of the comic. however, despite all these things, Darkseid Does have Powerful psionic powers, and the power to revert the evolutionary process of organisms, he Does have the power to travel in time, and a whole list of other powers he pretty much never uses, just as Captain Atom Does have the power to create and destroy a universe.



let me know if you're still having trouble comprehending the concept and i'll try to explain it in simpler terms and smaller words.

No, its nto simply because Spiderman is a hero and venom is a villain. Venom wipes the floor with Spiderman in regular combat, but Spiderman is one of the greatest fighters in the MU as far as on the spot planning goes. Spiderman wins because he is smarter, not because he is a good guy.

#54 xman4life

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Posted 11 March 2011 - 08:40 PM

No, its nto simply because Spiderman is a hero and venom is a villain. Venom wipes the floor with Spiderman in regular combat, but Spiderman is one of the greatest fighters in the MU as far as on the spot planning goes. Spiderman wins because he is smarter, not because he is a good guy.

True very very true people think of spider man as a comic hero quickly forgettting he has been kicking ass since 16. And is a GREAT on the spot tactian.




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