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X-men vs avengers


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#1 xman4life

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Posted 28 December 2010 - 07:40 PM

Cyclops
Storm
Magneto
Namor
Wolverine
Rouge
Gambit
Cable
Vs
Captain america
Thor
Iron man
Ms.marvel
Spider man
Black widow
Hawkeye
Dr.strange

Who wins and why?

#2 force_echo

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Posted 28 December 2010 - 08:07 PM

Avengers. And before anyone says that Magneto could manipulate Iron Man's armor, he has a antimagnetic field that prevents Magneto from doing so. I will post a scan of this ability if so prompted.

#3 sirmethos

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Posted 28 December 2010 - 09:00 PM

depends on which versions of the different characters.

which powers does Cable have?

is Gambit at standard or Full potential?

how hydrated is Namor?

which armor is Iron Man wearing?

does Thor have Odin Force?

just to mention a few of 'em. all of those make a Big difference in the outcome of the fight.

#4 Marvel Man

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Posted 28 December 2010 - 09:50 PM

Dr. Strange and Thor?

Cable's gonna have to be at his "Hold Silver Surfer & a city" level just to keep up. Still, Avengers take it in the end.

#5 sirmethos

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Posted 28 December 2010 - 10:12 PM

Dr. Strange and Thor?

Cable's gonna have to be at his "Hold Silver Surfer & a city" level just to keep up. Still, Avengers take it in the end.


if all the X-men are at their peak. then they have a very real chance of winning.

#6 Marvel Man

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Posted 28 December 2010 - 11:40 PM

Well, if you're assuming one side is maxed out, why not the other side as well? Let's put everyone at the strongest they've ever been.

Cyclops- His strongest is probably now, what with his absolute leadership over most of mutantkind, as well as his Sentinel level blasts.
Storm- Eh. Probably now? Maybe when she thought she was a goddess? Either ways, she's a powerful weathr goddess who can bust out giant tornados and huge blizzards.
Magneto- Easily his side's strongest. I'll place him at his rejuvenated by Alpha levels. At that level his shields should hold nukes, he's knocking tech out with one of those pulse attacks (mind has gone blank at the moment), and he's soloing the X-Men by himself (I think he's always been able to do this).
Namor- To be at his strongest they have to be near the ocean or something. Then he's a superfast, Hulk-busting beast.
Wolverine- Eh... Mark Millar's "Enemy of State" Wolverine? Wolves is chopping hundreds of ninjas by himself, holding his own against armies of bad guys, and going around kicking superheroes left and right.
Rouge- Probably during that time she couldn't touch anyone or else they'd die (wasn't that recently...). Or would it be when she touched that Skrull and could recall all the powers she's ever touched.
Gambit- Definitely his Horsemen of Apocalypse phase. Gambit's blowing crap up by just looking at it.
Cable- As I've said, Cable's holding his own with the Surfer while shielding a city.

Vs

Captain America- Eh... "Civil War" Cap? That time he almost ran for president? Either way, Cap's basically always Cap.
Thor- Rune King Thor (who solos) would be the strongest. That's unfair. So, maybe Odin Force (Nope, he solos too). I guess classic would make this as fair as possible. He's still Storm + Superman without kryptonite weakness.
Iron man- Hypervelocity, which is pretty difficult to explain. So, instead, let's use Extremis with SHIED info on everybody.
Ms. Marvel- Totally during her Space jammers (I might be wrong on the name) years. She's got the weird costume. Purple skin or something. On a semi-herald level.
Spider Man- Probably with the Uni-Power (which is probably unfair, since he had it for such a short while). So, maybe with a symbiote? Or that weird rebirth storyline when he died or something?
Black widow- Eh... The super hot Iron Man II version?
Hawkeye- Definitely Pre-Dissasembled/Pre-Secret Invasion.
Dr. Strange- Old school OMG Strange (who stomps on an insane level). I can't think of another suitable level, other than modern day's "Help me... I'm so weak Brother Voodoo is gonna replace me as Sorceror Suprem... Oh, and the Hood totally owned me" version. Maybe at a midpoint between his awesome "I talk to Infinty about yesterday's football scores" and today's version?

So, I'll assume those closer in power will go acts one another. This breaks down like this:

Cyclops vs Captain America- Pretty even. Probably the two best leaders in Marvel. Each has their strengths and their weaknesses. Cyclops might have a blast that can demolish tanks, but Cap has him on every other level (speed, strength, experience). This is close, but I'm giving it to Cap. That shield has taken tons of punishment, plus, I doubt Cyclops will just rip his visor off. No, this fight's gonna be tactical fight, with Cap barely outmaneuvering Cyke.

Wolverine vs Hawkeye- Wolvie. Easy. I don't care how awesome Hawkeye is, he's going down.

Gambit vs Black Widow- Gambit. Easy. Against either widow. Even the hot version.

Rogue vs Ms. Marvel- The figth I've wanted to see for a long time. Why? Cause Marvel would own her. She's simply faster, and capable of blasting her out of the sky without resorting to hand to hand.

Storm vs Spider Man- Part of me thinks Spidey could blitz her. I mean, Spidey can react faster than bullets, while Storm has average female reflexes. Still, for fairness, they're too far apart. Storm rips him limb from limb.

Namor vs Iron Man- Classic fight. And at peak levels, both are pretty equal. However, Iron Man has too many tricks up his sleeve. As long as they don't go into the ocean, I see him taking it.

Magneto vs Dr. Strange- Strange. Even the middle average Strange can teleport within Magneto's force field. Or, if he has a personal force field, then he can just dimension dump him.

Cable vs Thor- Oh man, this would be close. However, while Cable's power fluctuates from here to there, Thor is a solid brick. He's taking this.

That leaves Cap, Ms. Marvel, Iron Man, Thor, and Doc Strange vs Wolvie, Gambit, and Storm.

This is clearly a win for the Avengers.

#7 sirmethos

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Posted 29 December 2010 - 01:57 AM

you're doing this as 1on1 fights, instead of a team vs. team battle.

also, there are a few errors in your listing of when the characters has been at their strongest.

Storm: not including the future where she transformed into a pure elemental being, her most impressive show of power was when she lost control and nearly created a world-wide iceage.

Gambit: Definitely during his fight with the New Sun and his trip back in time in which he regained his full potential as an Omega-class mutant. ie. complete control over Kinetic Energy.


Spider-Man: Definitely during the events of The Other.




however, for the sake of argument let's use the power levels you're suggesting.

Cyclops is without any doubt the best team-leader and team tactician in Marvel, something that has been stated by Captain America himself, and both sides have full information about each other.

on the side of the X-men, Cable will most likely start out by neutralizing Dr. Strange and Ms. Marvel, since they are the most powerful of the Avengers members that he can affect with his telepathy. while that happens, Namor will likely engage Thor, while Gambit charges Iron Mans armor.

While Namor is going hand-to-hand with Thor, Storm will be providing backup, preventing Thor from using his weather powers.

at the same time, Cyclops will likely take out Black Widow and Hawkeye, since they are the easiest targets for his Optic Blasts, he will then blast Iron Man and trigger the energy charge in his armor, making it explode.

at the same time, Wolverine will be engaging Captain America, while Rogue goes after Spider-Man.


since neutralizing Strange and Ms. Marvel only takes a single thought, Cable can turn his attention to helping Namor and Storm take down Thor who, while powerful, isn't a match against the combined powers of the three of them, at this point Magneto also joins the fight against Thor, while at the same time, immobilizing Spider-Man for a few seconds, long enough for Rogue to get her hands on him.

after draining spider-man, Rogue can then go assist Wolverine against Cap. who at this point, goes down quickly against the Far superior power.

we are now left with Thor against the X-men, after.... let's be generous and say 2-3 minutes.


Thor is powerful, extremely so, especially if he goes into a berserker rage. but he is simply not powerful enough to win against that kind of power, skill and coordination.

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Posted 29 December 2010 - 03:06 AM

Hank McCoy is a terrible X Man.
Hank McCoy is one of my favorite Avengers of all time.
No contest.

#9 force_echo

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Posted 29 December 2010 - 07:43 AM

however, for the sake of argument let's use the power levels you're suggesting.

Cyclops is without any doubt the best team-leader and team tactician in Marvel, something that has been stated by Captain America himself, and both sides have full information about each other.

on the side of the X-men, Cable will most likely start out by neutralizing Dr. Strange and Ms. Marvel, since they are the most powerful of the Avengers members that he can affect with his telepathy. while that happens, Namor will likely engage Thor, while Gambit charges Iron Mans armor.

While Namor is going hand-to-hand with Thor, Storm will be providing backup, preventing Thor from using his weather powers.

at the same time, Cyclops will likely take out Black Widow and Hawkeye, since they are the easiest targets for his Optic Blasts, he will then blast Iron Man and trigger the energy charge in his armor, making it explode.

at the same time, Wolverine will be engaging Captain America, while Rogue goes after Spider-Man.


since neutralizing Strange and Ms. Marvel only takes a single thought, Cable can turn his attention to helping Namor and Storm take down Thor who, while powerful, isn't a match against the combined powers of the three of them, at this point Magneto also joins the fight against Thor, while at the same time, immobilizing Spider-Man for a few seconds, long enough for Rogue to get her hands on him.

after draining spider-man, Rogue can then go assist Wolverine against Cap. who at this point, goes down quickly against the Far superior power.

we are now left with Thor against the X-men, after.... let's be generous and say 2-3 minutes.


Thor is powerful, extremely so, especially if he goes into a berserker rage. but he is simply not powerful enough to win against that kind of power, skill and coordination.

What? Iron Man's armor is impervious to KE, and his energy shields can easily tank an optic blast from Cyke so that the blast wouldn't even reach Iron Man. Neutralizing Strange dosen't take a "single thought" he beat Moonstone with the Mind Gem. THE MIND GEM.

This is how its gonna work, Iron Man effortlessly destroys Rogue since he is immune to her powers, since he has telepathic sheilding installed in his brain he goes after Cable next. Spiderman beats Gambit. While this is happenning I agree that Storm, Magneto, and Namor are going after Thor, he won't win this fight, he'll keep the heavy hitters of the X-men team occupied so that the others can mop up. Ms. Marvel takes down Wolverine, binary or not. BW and Hawkeye fall to cyclops, but it wouldn't be instant like you're suggesting. At this point, Iron Man takes down Cyclops easily.

This leaves Namor, Magneto, and Storm (who have by this time felled Thor, but they are tired from the battle). Iron Man's suit is pressurized, he takes down Storm easy and goes after Namor. (I still don't know which Iron Man armor this is, SKIN? Bleeding edge?). Magneto kills all but the heavy hitters off. Dr. strange takes down Magneto, and Ms. Marvel helps Iron Man beat Namor.

#10 sirmethos

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Posted 29 December 2010 - 10:22 AM

What? Iron Man's armor is impervious to KE, and his energy shields can easily tank an optic blast from Cyke so that the blast wouldn't even reach Iron Man. Neutralizing Strange dosen't take a "single thought" he beat Moonstone with the Mind Gem. THE MIND GEM.


if the armor was impervious to Kinetic Energy, it wouldn't be able to move.

Kinetic Energy = movement.

the way Gambits power works is that he converts the latent energy in an object into Kinetic Energy. so unless the metal of the armor has no latent energy, it will be affected by Gambits powers just like any other objects.

i'll concede about the Optic Blast though, but that's a non-issue since Iron Man will still explode the first time there is any kind of impact to his armor. which, if nothing else, will happen when he goes up against the heavy hitters.


as for Strange, his magic takes time to prepare, and there is no way he can protect himself from every single method Cable could use to take him out.

Telepathically shutting his brain down, Telekinetically stopping the bloodflow to his brain causing him to go unconscious, Telekinetically disrupting his heart rythm causing him to have a stroke, Telepathically forcing him to attack his allies causing Them to take him down. etc. etc. etc. etc. ad nauseum.

#11 force_echo

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Posted 29 December 2010 - 11:12 AM

if the armor was impervious to Kinetic Energy, it wouldn't be able to move.

Kinetic Energy = movement.

the way Gambits power works is that he converts the latent energy in an object into Kinetic Energy. so unless the metal of the armor has no latent energy, it will be affected by Gambits powers just like any other objects.

i'll concede about the Optic Blast though, but that's a non-issue since Iron Man will still explode the first time there is any kind of impact to his armor. which, if nothing else, will happen when he goes up against the heavy hitters.


as for Strange, his magic takes time to prepare, and there is no way he can protect himself from every single method Cable could use to take him out.

Telepathically shutting his brain down, Telekinetically stopping the bloodflow to his brain causing him to go unconscious, Telekinetically disrupting his heart rythm causing him to have a stroke, Telepathically forcing him to attack his allies causing Them to take him down. etc. etc. etc. etc. ad nauseum.

What I mean by impervious is that its impervious the same way Black Panther's suit is impervious, its like trying to charge vibranium with KE, its not gonna do anything. "The suit can withstand almost unlimited kinetic and thermal impact". I don't know what you mean by conversion of latent Kinetic Energy, every object has active KE in the form of thermal energy unless its absolute Zero, do you mean increasing the kinetic energy of the particles in his armor? If so, its gonna take alot more than what gambit is shown to posess to disrupt the hyper aligned crystal matrix that makes up Iron Man's armor, it can take degrees as hot as the Sun's temperatures, furthermore, aren't Gambit's powers more effective up close? Furthermore, don't you think Iron Man would be prepared for this, seeing as how he knows who Gambit is and his power, he's gonna do something about it, he always does. Matter of fact, it would only take a single repulsor shot to kill Gambit in the first place, you're assuming in your scenario that none of the Avengers except Thor are gonna fight back, which is very foolish. The fact is you have 4 heavy hitters on the Marvel team, and only 3 on the X-Men team (and thats counting Storm as a heavy hitter).

I don't know where people got this misconception that every time Strange uses magic he utters a paragraph of arcane words. Most magic he dosen't say anything at all, he can definitely destroy Cable without uttering a word.

#12 Omega11

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Posted 29 December 2010 - 03:00 PM

Cable's gonna have to be at his "Hold Silver Surfer & a city" level just to keep up. Still, Avengers take it in the end.


Pretty much. Unfortunately for the X-Men, their line-up seems to be from around the time of Second Coming, which means Cable is virtually powerless.

#13 comic_book_fan

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Posted 29 December 2010 - 03:04 PM

magneto takes down tony there you go now the rest of what sirmethos said is correct so there .
x-men win.

#14 Marvel Man

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Posted 29 December 2010 - 03:21 PM

Methos, two things:

1. Strange, even modern day version, is a psychic beast. You remember Moondragon? She was basically a female Professor X on steroids. Well, what happens when you give her the *$£¥@ Mind Gem? She gets owned thats what!

Posted Image
Posted Image

2. Having said this, Gambit is not blowing Tony up. Even if we're using Horsemen of Apocalypse version (I did not use alternate universe version, or weird future versions), he has to get up close to touh him. That blowing things up with his vsion might work on small items, but I doubt it'd take Iron Man's armor.

Anyways, I agree that on a team basis, things would be different. How different? Let's see:

Okay, let's just pretend Cable does go for the surprise mind blast on Strange. Well, joke's on him. Strange quickly takes him mentally. Now, I would normally assume Strange crushes him in seconds, but let's assume they drag things out. Also, if he goes the telekinetic route, why can't Strange escape the physical plane and bring him into the astral plane? There Strange would have an ever bigger advantage....

Okay, with those guys out before anyone can even notice, it comes down to leadership. On this, I'm torn. Yes, Cyke is a darn good leader, but better than Cap?! It's one thing to lead your team against Shiar's Imperial Guard with the life of the woman you love at stake (that alone takes serious skillz. The type that uses a z instead on an s), but it's a whole other thing to see Thor, the god of thunder, get shattered like glass by Thanos, who just crushed everyone on your team with the Infinity Gauntlet, and yet you're still going to charge him with your tiny shield. C'mon man! Thanos had wiped out everybody at that point. And Cap was like, "Well, I guess it's up to me now". Oh man, I realize he got owned, but the sheer bravery of that must be respected.

So, in my opinion, Cap is still a better hand to hand fighter, a better athlete, etc. I'll give Cyke the technical advantage, but he's still beaten on everything else.

Having said that, I'll follow your scenario (with the exception of Cable/Strange), and have Namor and Storm double team Thor. As you said, Wolverine will probably be sent to keep Cap busy, with Cap sending Hawkeye and Widow to do the same against Cyke. From there, I don't see either leader being able to organize the battle.

Now, Magneto, instead of fighting Thor, will have to fight Ms. Marvel. Since both can fly, let's assume they take the fight to the sky, leaving everyone else alone. This one is a real toss up, as Marvel is so much faster than Magneto (basically a jet), but Magneto is still Magneto (you never count him out). So, let's assume Magneto throws up a shield and holds Marvel to a slow blast to blast fight.

Meanwhile, below, Rogue and Spidey are pretty much flying all over the field, with Spidey clearly on the losing end. He's basically doing what he does best, and that's using his spidey sense and speed to dodge stronger opponents. On the other side, Gambit and Iron Man are going at it. Now, Gambit isn't getting the instant KO Methos assumed, since Gambit isn't capable of blowing something like Tony's armor without at least touching it (which is definitely not happening). Tony on the other hand, is a faster, stronger, more experienced fighter, with long range weapons. Now, I realize Gambit fights dirty, but that only gets you so far. Eventually, he's going down.

So, now that Iron Man is free, where does he go? Tony's a smart guy, he knows who he can actually help, and who he'd just interfere with. So, he goes to help Cap (who would win his fight, it'd just take longer). He blasts Wolvie from behind and the two then get to see the field.

Thor vs Storm and Namor (Ongoing)
Rogue vs Spidey (Advantage Rogue: Ongoing)
Cable vs Strange (Ongoing)
Magneto vs Ms. Marvel (Ongoing)
Cyclops vs Hawkeye and Black Widow (Ongoing: Surprised? Hawkeye and Widow have the same amount of experience as Cyclops, and this isn't the first time they've seen someone who can shoot energy blasts. Heck, that's the most common power. Working together, I'd say they would beat Cyke. But, just to please the masses, let's assume Cyke takes them both out)

So, naturally, Iron Man and Cap head over to Cyclops, who, up against both Avengers, goes down.

Meanwhile, Rogue finally catches Spidey and gives him a good one. She momentarily asks herself why she ripped him in half.

Having beaten Cyke, the duo now charges Rogue. Rogue's getting nothing by touching Iron Man, so I really don't see her having any chance here. She gets blasted.

At this point, there are two big fights going on. Magneto and Ms. Marvel, and Thor's. Iron Man could help Ms. Marvel, but Cap will most likely direct him against Storm. Caught by surprise, a good shot ought to take her down. Without her, Namor goes down faster than you can say "Namor, how'd you ever lose to Aquaman?!".

By now, let's say Magneto has finally landed a good enough hit on Ms. Marvel. He comes down and finds...

That he is all alone. He is then pummeled by Thor and Iron Man while Cap shouts "Avengers Assemble!". At this point, Strange has finished off Cable, and appears before the Avengers. They lift their fist up and shout, "NNNOOOOOO!!!", as they mourn their fallen comrades. However, they quickly get over it and go to Hooters to celebrate their victory.

#15 Omega11

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Posted 29 December 2010 - 03:26 PM

This whole discussion on the characters most powerful versions is probably moot, as the line-ups pretty much indicate that it is the current version of the characters.

In fact, that probably means it's Bucky and not Steve. Not that that makes a huge difference either way.

#16 Marvel Man

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Posted 29 December 2010 - 03:30 PM

This whole discussion on the characters most powerful versions is probably moot, as the line-ups pretty much indicate that it is the current version of the characters.

In that case, the X-Men get stomped. Without Emma Frost, Cyclops is apparently, incapable of doing anything. Curse you Emma!

In fact, that probably means it's Bucky and not Steve. Not that that makes a huge difference either way.

Agreed. Except, Bucky actually uses guns.

But other than that, not much else changes.

#17 force_echo

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Posted 29 December 2010 - 03:46 PM

magneto takes down tony there you go now the rest of what sirmethos said is correct so there .
x-men win.

Thank you for ignoring my post. Iron Man has an antimagnetic field in his armor.

Posted Image

You have to zoom the pic to see the dialogue, but Magneto's magnetism powers do not affect Tony.

#18 Blue Beetle (Jamie Reyes)

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Posted 29 December 2010 - 06:28 PM

The Avenngers have Thor. I don't see any of those X-Men beating a Norse god.

#19 sirmethos

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Posted 29 December 2010 - 06:30 PM

Methos, two things:

1. Strange, even modern day version, is a psychic beast. You remember Moondragon? She was basically a female Professor X on steroids. Well, what happens when you give her the *$£¥@ Mind Gem? She gets owned thats what!

Posted Image
Posted Image

2. Having said this, Gambit is not blowing Tony up. Even if we're using Horsemen of Apocalypse version (I did not use alternate universe version, or weird future versions), he has to get up close to touh him. That blowing things up with his vsion might work on small items, but I doubt it'd take Iron Man's armor.



1. i completely agree that if Cable engages in a mental Battle with Dr. Strange, he would get *insensitivity'd*. what what i'm talking about is a simple psionic blast. pure force that shuts the brain down.

unless Strange already has mental shields that are more powerful than what Cable can do, he will still get taken down by a blast like that.


2. who has said anything about alternate versions, or future versions? i'm talking about 616 Gambit, when the New Sun came to kill him, he got his full potential back and fought off the New Sun(who is an alternate version of Gambit), during the events of that, Gambit was transported to the past, then used his powers to travel back to his own time. Gambit having had his full potential is mainstream Marvel, not alternate realities or future versions.



Thank you for ignoring my post. Iron Man has an antimagnetic field in his armor.



despite the 'anti-magnetic field'. Magneto could still take him down, as i explained to you on the chat.

#20 force_echo

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Posted 29 December 2010 - 08:54 PM

1. i completely agree that if Cable engages in a mental Battle with Dr. Strange, he would get *insensitivity'd*. what what i'm talking about is a simple psionic blast. pure force that shuts the brain down.

unless Strange already has mental shields that are more powerful than what Cable can do, he will still get taken down by a blast like that.


2. who has said anything about alternate versions, or future versions? i'm talking about 616 Gambit, when the New Sun came to kill him, he got his full potential back and fought off the New Sun(who is an alternate version of Gambit), during the events of that, Gambit was transported to the past, then used his powers to travel back to his own time. Gambit having had his full potential is mainstream Marvel, not alternate realities or future versions.






despite the 'anti-magnetic field'. Magneto could still take him down, as i explained to you on the chat.

His powers over molecules are minimal at best, Iron Man's crystallized armor would be out of Mag's range.




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