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Zombies vs U.S. forces


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#21 Skirmisher

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Posted 05 December 2010 - 03:51 AM

Wait, hold up. What exactly are these "regular zombies"? Are they the one that are the norm in fiction, the traditional zombie, or something else?

I'm guessing standard slow moving, rotting corpse that moans... Like the ones you'd see in Resident Evil or that Dead Rising.


Also, yeah... No Zombie's going to be biting through Military Fatigues, not even the heavy gloves they use.

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#22 Red Blue Blur

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Posted 05 December 2010 - 10:43 AM

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Bite through the fore arm, calf, neck, face, and yes a human could bite hard enough to break the skin even with those gloves on. Plus if they have to turn and retreat that armor is going to slow them down, while zombies could run at a full sprint. If a soldier is down zombies will continue to pile on so he will be infected unless he either gets away or is rescued immediately.

If they shot a zombie up close and blood got in there mouth, eyes, or open wound they become infected.

Plus the military would set up an HQ and try to defend it. What happens when the become overun? They can just evacuate on the drop of a hat. To pull out would take time which they wouldnt have much of. Plus if just one zombie survives they whole scenario can start over again. Without heavy artillery I find it hard for soldiers to win.

Also while grenades might criple, it is not garunteed a zombie kill. Im sure some would kill a few but the shrapnel blows in every direction, which leaves a high possibility of missing entirely. I just believe there are too many variables for the soldiers to win.

#23 Jason Redfield

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Posted 05 December 2010 - 11:06 AM

Bite through the fore arm, calf, neck, face, and yes a human could bite hard enough to break the skin even with those gloves on. Plus if they have to turn and retreat that armor is going to slow them down, while zombies could run at a full sprint. If a soldier is down zombies will continue to pile on so he will be infected unless he either gets away or is rescued immediately.

Like I said, go find some fatigues and bite as hard as you can. Tell me how that works out. This isn't a movie where clothes rip dramatically at the slightest force. And these clothes are even more durable than the norm, considering their usage....

Those gloves are often made to resist heat, flash (small explosions), abrasion, and puncture.

If they shot a zombie up close and blood got in there mouth, eyes, or open wound they become infected.

Depends on the zombie type. If it's a truly dead zombie, the blood will be coagulated. Besides, blood doesn't spray as much as you might think from a gunshot, even with a living human. Knives and such cause blood spray, bullet holes... not as much.

Besides, there are more flaws in your logic. For one, they may very well be wearing a gas mask, balaclava, shemagh, sunglasses, or goggles. The first is the most likely, considering the higher-ups may put all troops in MOPP 4 in a contagion situation.

And, of course, if the soldier is firing a bullet into a zombie at point-blank, something's wrong. They'll be firing from hundreds of yards away.

Plus the military would set up an HQ and try to defend it. What happens when the become overun? They can just evacuate on the drop of a hat. To pull out would take time which they wouldnt have much of. Plus if just one zombie survives they whole scenario can start over again. Without heavy artillery I find it hard for soldiers to win.

Not necessarily. And I'm not convinced it WOULD be overrun, depending on the site.

Also while grenades might criple, it is not garunteed a zombie kill. Im sure some would kill a few but the shrapnel blows in every direction, which leaves a high possibility of missing entirely. I just believe there are too many variables for the soldiers to win.

Depends on the type of zombie (I need a quick acronym for that). And a zombie with its legs blown off is preferable to a fully functional one. And the fragments blowing "in every direction" gives a higher hit probability against multiple targets. Have you seen what a grenade can do to a human form it lands next to? The thing has a casualty radius of 15 meters and a kill radius of five. That means that it's almost a sure thing that anyone within five meters (that's a longer distance than you think) will die. There's a reason for that.

#24 Red Blue Blur

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Posted 05 December 2010 - 11:26 AM

Like I said, go find some fatigues and bite as hard as you can. Tell me how that works out. This isn't a movie where clothes rip dramatically at the slightest force. And these clothes are even more durable than the norm, considering their usage....

Those gloves are often made to resist heat, flash (small explosions), abrasion, and puncture.


Depends on the zombie type. If it's a truly dead zombie, the blood will be coagulated. Besides, blood doesn't spray as much as you might think from a gunshot, even with a living human. Knives and such cause blood spray, bullet holes... not as much.

Besides, there are more flaws in your logic. For one, they may very well be wearing a gas mask, balaclava, shemagh, sunglasses, or goggles. The first is the most likely, considering the higher-ups may put all troops in MOPP 4 in contagion situation.

And, of course, if the soldier is firing a bullet into a zombie at point-blank, something's wrong. They'll be firing from hundreds of yards away.


Not necessarily. And I'm not convinced it WOULD be overrun, depending on the site.


Depends on the type of zombie (I need a quick acronym for that). And a zombie with its legs blown off is preferable to a fully functional one. And the fragments blowing "in every direction" gives a higher hit probability against multiple targets. Have you seen what a grenade can do to a human form it lands next to? The thing has a casualty radius of 15 meters and a kill radius of five. That means that it's almost a sure thing that anyone within five meters (that's a longer distance than you think) will die. There's a reason for that.

I couldnt bite through the material because it would cause pain to my teeth. Zombies wont stop they will rip, scatch, and bite until they get to you.

Zombie essence in your mouth, wounds or eyes in any form has proven to be fatal in most novels and movies.

Zombies would be continuely advancing while the military remained stationary so the zombies WILL get in close eventually

Hitting the zombie is not like hitting a person. I five yard kill radius means nothing because that is against humans. Humans have vital organs that if hurt can kill you. Zombies only need a brain. I have read dozen of zombie novels and scene plenty of movies and the most consistent attributes of zombies is, they only die by destroying the brain, even a scratch infects you, and they feel no pain or fear.

Also when you add in the Left 4 Dead zombies you have hunters, exploding ones, tanks, smokers, and witchs.

Finally while zombies have no fear, men do. The men in this situation will be nervous, scared and some even panicked. Add in this and there aim gets worse. There shots wont be very accurate from long range without sniper scopes. Then that brings the battle to withing 100 to 200 yards. That ground will be covered quickly by the undead ranks. Its just not feasible in these conditions. For every soldier they kill there numbers grow, while the armies dwindles.

#25 Jason Redfield

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Posted 05 December 2010 - 01:59 PM

I couldnt bite through the material because it would cause pain to my teeth. Zombies wont stop they will rip, scatch, and bite until they get to you.

Zombies don't have superhuman strength. They only have the bite force of the human they once were, possibly quite less once you factor in decomposition. True, pain often limits what humans are capable of. But even zombies would have to sit there and gnaw and tear to get through it for a long while. They won't have that luxury. A soldier will pull away -- it'll be a grazing bite that lasts a split second at most. You're seriously underestimating the toughness of fabrics and how hard they are to tear, particularly with teeth.

Take a look at photos where people have been bitten in brawls or even murders. A lot of those bites don't even break the skin. They just bruise. And those are people that are pumped up on adrenaline or in some cases drugs. They're barely limited by pain.

Zombie essence in your mouth, wounds or eyes in any form has proven to be fatal in most novels and movies.

You missed my point completely. That doesn't matter if the "essence" doesn't make it to any of those places. Which it won't, considering the soldiers will in all likelihood have those openings covered and will be hundreds of yards away. Not to mention the coagulation and lack of blood spray from bullets I mentioned earlier.

Also, there have been several cases in which blood got on characters in zombie movies (including their face), and that person did not get infected.

Zombies would be continuely advancing while the military remained stationary so the zombies WILL get in close eventually

Now you're just making stuff up for the purpose of advancing your argument. Why would the soldiers remain stationary? Do they lack legs or a brain? They'll be smart enough to lay down fire as they retreat, or fire from an elevated position. And zombies are SLOW.

Hitting the zombie is not like hitting a person. I five yard kill radius means nothing because that is against humans. Humans have vital organs that if hurt can kill you. Zombies only need a brain. I have read dozen of zombie novels and scene plenty of movies and the most consistent attributes of zombies is, they only die by destroying the brain, even a scratch infects you, and they feel no pain or fear.

True, grenades are less effective against zombies than humans. But they're still capable of ripping a humanoid form to shreds. And as I've said repeatedly, multiple types of zombies can be felled by things other than destroying the brain. Additionally, in many genres, only bites (not scratches) infect.

Also when you add in the Left 4 Dead zombies you have hunters, exploding ones, tanks, smokers, and witchs.

The first can be taken down by just a few shots. The same is true of the second. The third can be taken down by sustained fire, high-caliber weapons, explosives, or anti-tank weapons. Smokers are easily dealt with. And witches are unlikely to get involved.

#26 Jason Redfield

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Posted 05 December 2010 - 02:00 PM

Finally while zombies have no fear, men do. The men in this situation will be nervous, scared and some even panicked. Add in this and there aim gets worse. There shots wont be very accurate from long range without sniper scopes. Then that brings the battle to withing 100 to 200 yards. That ground will be covered quickly by the undead ranks. Its just not feasible in these conditions. For every soldier they kill there numbers grow, while the armies dwindles.


Tell that to the Marines that were engaged in a firefight in Iraq. They scored so many headshots (from distances in excess of a hundred yards) that there were suspicions of executions being carried out. They were scared too, and they didn't have sniper scopes. Those were just assault rifles.

Their aim doesn't need to be perfect when each man is carrying AT LEAST 210 rounds and can put them downrange quickly. And as I've said, they will fall back before they are in any real danger. They'll cover 200 yards quickly? Don't make me laugh. Tell you what, go to a football field. Start staggering at a rate of a single step per 1.5 seconds. Go down the entire length of the field and back while someone else times you. Tell me how "quickly" you cover that distance.

And if a soldier does somehow die, that doesn't mean they instantly get up and turn into a zombie. The transformation is gradual, often taking hours.

#27 ND7

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Posted 05 December 2010 - 02:11 PM

Say Jason, c'mon pal, don't leave old little ND out of the debate!

Here is pretty much three ways I see the zombies MAYBE winning.

1: The fireman, and the civillans probably aren't wearing protection, and so if the zombies take all of them, the soliders are all gonna be by themsleves, and then they will have to worry about while they are fighting, and if the fightign takes hours, if they don't move the bodies that have been biten, they will have zombies that are past thier defenses.

2: The Troxin zombies might even try to drive one of the firetrucks, that are being used to barricade, as they were seen driving a milltary jeep in ROTLD 2.

3: The Left 4 dead zombies distract the soliders, while the Troixon zombies find a weakenss or SOME way to get to the soliders/Cillvians/Fireman/Police/SWAT officers/ on the other side.

#28 Skirmisher

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Posted 05 December 2010 - 04:13 PM

Yeah... the Trioxin zombies are the only real threat in this scenario... I haven't seen much of the movies the're in, but there's no real way to get rid of them aside from complete dismemberment and containment... And then, they'll probably spread and infect all the other recently shot through the head Zombies (and nearby graveyards) when the Military starts burning the corpses and inadvertently unleashes the Trioxin into the atmosphere.

#29 Ruinus

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Posted 05 December 2010 - 05:20 PM

So, basically: A large armed military force with modernday weaponry vs a large group of unarmed humans who have to slowly shuffle towards them?

How is this even a debate? The zombies are all killed without ever getting close enough to even hurt any of the military forces.

Modern weaponry, such as grenades, rocket launchers, or machine guns all shred zombies. Who cares if a zombie only "dies" when it's shot in the head if a grenade shreded it in two, or it's missing a leg? Their bodies would be torn apart into pieces, and then they are reduced in their speed even more.

Someone just starts going out and shooting them in the head at their leisure.

#30 Jason Redfield

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Posted 05 December 2010 - 05:29 PM

1: The fireman, and the civillans probably aren't wearing protection, and so if the zombies take all of them, the soliders are all gonna be by themsleves, and then they will have to worry about while they are fighting, and if the fightign takes hours, if they don't move the bodies that have been biten, they will have zombies that are past thier defenses.

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Firefighters not wearing protection you say?

Some of the civilians possibly, depending on the clothes they're wearing. But even they would be smart enough to run away. And if they know bitten bodies rise, they'll be sure to dispose of them in some way.

2: The Troxin zombies might even try to drive one of the firetrucks, that are being used to barricade, as they were seen driving a milltary jeep in ROTLD 2.

They'd have to get the keys. They'd have to know how to drive it (ever try driving something that large? there's a reason firefighters need special courses to get certified for it), and they'd have to do all of this without their vehicle getting reduced to scrap metal within seconds. Modern soldiers manning roadblocks know not to fool around when it comes to hostile vehicles...

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3: The Left 4 dead zombies distract the soliders, while the Troixon zombies find a weakenss or SOME way to get to the soliders/Cillvians/Fireman/Police/SWAT officers/ on the other side.

That "distraction" would last a grand total of a few seconds under military fire. And the Trioxin zombies aren't grand schemers or masterminds. They're smarter than your run-of-the-mill zombie, but that AT best puts them on the same level of intelligence of the human they once were. And your average person wouldn't be capable of finding a weakness in a military-led defense.

#31 ND7

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Posted 05 December 2010 - 05:49 PM

So, basically: A large armed military force with modernday weaponry vs a large group of unarmed humans who have to slowly shuffle towards them?

How is this even a debate? The zombies are all killed without ever getting close enough to even hurt any of the military forces.

Modern weaponry, such as grenades, rocket launchers, or machine guns all shred zombies. Who cares if a zombie only "dies" when it's shot in the head if a grenade shreded it in two, or it's missing a leg? Their bodies would be torn apart into pieces, and then they are reduced in their speed even more.

Someone just starts going out and shooting them in the head at their leisure.

Runinus, here are some feats for the Troxin Zombies.

1: One took getting blasted in the face, with steam, metling the skin off its face. This same zombie got shot in half by a shotgun. Also the LFD zombies and the Trioxion zombies can run...and with this advantage, they can like wait until the soliders HAVE to stop to reload.

2: One zombie took a police radio, and called in more cops, who they then swarmed.

3: One was smart enough to try and pry the doors, that a girl had locked, right off the hinges.

They would probably attack the civillans/police officers/ SWAT officers, who are probably not as well armed as the Soliders. And by not well armed, I mean by like the civillans probably aren't gonna be stealing guns off the soliders/ and the officers while they are fighting the zombies.

Now I got a question. For the defenses that I put up for each of the battles? Lets say the zombies got too close, would the defeneses last?

Battle 1: Sandbags, with barb wire, and a Abatis.

2: Using the fire trucks to blockade.

3: Police cars, and barbwire.

#32 Red Blue Blur

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Posted 05 December 2010 - 08:12 PM

Trust me. The fire gear does nothing. Yeah it protects them but you CAN NOT RUN IN IT. You will over heat overtime then you will have to discard it. I was in the fire dept. and that gear is not very functional for lots of moving. Also the vehicles are not that hard to drive.

Plus a lot of zombies listed can sprint. Others have special abilities. The troxin zombies could just pick up some vehicles and round up zombies to carry towards the scene. Also like people state in many matchs, their is a sort of ring out clause. If the soldiers have to retreat then they lose the city therefore losing the battle.

Also this is not a fight were the dead all line up and come straight down a street. This takes place in the city. The soldiers will have to exterminate them by locating some while others will come to them.

#33 Jason Redfield

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Posted 05 December 2010 - 08:47 PM

Trust me. The fire gear does nothing. Yeah it protects them but you CAN NOT RUN IN IT. You will over heat overtime then you will have to discard it. I was in the fire dept. and that gear is not very functional for lots of moving. Also the vehicles are not that hard to drive.

If you were in the Fire Dept., then you know the absolutely ridiculously amount of physical conditioning those guys go through. They're in awesome shape. Good enough to wear the fire gear and do some physically strenuous activities, which they do for a living I might add. Besides, they don't have to wear ALL the gear. Just enough to cover the appendages. That would not be overly fatiguing at all for someone in shape like them.

The vehicles are HUGE and cumbersome. And they're already set up in a roadblock, with guys firing at the area. And they'd still have to get the keys...

Plus a lot of zombies listed can sprint. Others have special abilities. The troxin zombies could just pick up some vehicles and round up zombies to carry towards the scene. Also like people state in many matchs, their is a sort of ring out clause. If the soldiers have to retreat then they lose the city therefore losing the battle.

A lot? Not really. Not enough to make a huge difference. And those special abilities just won't cause a huge dent, either. And like I said, soldiers DO NOT respond well to hostile vehicles coming at them. In fact, if a Trixoin zombie did that, they'd just be making things easierfor the soldiers. One AT-4 or grenade launcher round reduces that vehicle to scrap metal and all of its passengers to body parts.

Also this is not a fight were the dead all line up and come straight down a street. This takes place in the city. The soldiers will have to exterminate them by locating some while others will come to them.


The only zombies smart enough to hide would be the Trioxin ones, which would remove them as a threat temporarily. The others WILL come in a straight line at them. The soldiers are aware of the merits of letting an enemy come to you, so you can bet your ass that is what they'll do.

#34 Red Blue Blur

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Posted 05 December 2010 - 08:56 PM

If you were in the Fire Dept., then you know the absolutely ridiculously amount of physical conditioning those guys go through. They're in awesome shape. Good enough to wear the fire gear and do some physically strenuous activities, which they do for a living I might add. Besides, they don't have to wear ALL the gear. Just enough to cover the appendages. That would not be overly fatiguing at all for someone in shape like them.


The only zombies smart enough to hide would be the Trioxin ones, which would remove them as a threat temporarily. The others WILL come in a straight line at them. The soldiers are aware of the merits of letting an enemy come to you, so you can bet your ass that is what they'll do.

The fire gear is very thick yes but in order to cover your exposed skin the material becomes very hot very quickly. The equipment is not good for continues physical straining activity. The suit does not release any body heat and after 15 minutes of continues use its recommended to stop and take the protective gear off to avoid heat stroke so they would honestly be better off without it. Its harder to move around in than military gear according to a few friends that were in the marines and arm said this. (not due to weight but because you cant release body heat)

Again though the military cant retreat due to the set up and the zombies could be coming from a dozen different directions. The zombies will continue to advance and there numbers will eventually over run the barracks. In Washington DC it says they are fighting trench warfare so that works against the humans there.

#35 Jason Redfield

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Posted 05 December 2010 - 09:25 PM

Again though the military cant retreat due to the set up and the zombies could be coming from a dozen different directions. The zombies will continue to advance and there numbers will eventually over run the barracks. In Washington DC it says they are fighting trench warfare so that works against the humans there.


Where does it say they're coming from different directions? Even if this is the case, a square or circular formation could be used. And who cares if they overrun the barracks? Ignoring for the moment that trench warfare went out of style decades ago, it doesn't say they're restricted to the trenches. They could just evac as soon as the zombos get close. Indeed, you can count on many ghouls falling into the trenches and getting trapped. Don't get me started if the soldiers decide to fill the trenches with gasoline...

The troops could just get on top of a building and reinforce the door to the roof. Most zombies wouldn't be smart enough to navigate through the building to get to them, and any that could would just receive a gunshot to the head for their efforts. The soldiers could simply sit on top of the roof, plinking at their leisure.

#36 Red Blue Blur

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Posted 05 December 2010 - 09:37 PM

Where does it say they're coming from different directions? Even if this is the case, a square or circular formation could be used. And who cares if they overrun the barracks? Ignoring for the moment that trench warfare went out of style decades ago, it doesn't say they're restricted to the trenches. They could just evac as soon as the zombos get close. Indeed, you can count on many ghouls falling into the trenches and getting trapped. Don't get me started if the soldiers decide to fill the trenches with gasoline...

The troops could just get on top of a building and reinforce the door to the roof. Most zombies wouldn't be smart enough to navigate through the building to get to them, and any that could would just receive a gunshot to the head for their efforts. The soldiers could simply sit on top of the roof, plinking at their leisure.

but that wouldnt prevent the zombies from getting to the civilians they were protecting. Also the battle takes place in the city. Not an open field, so there would be streets and alleys to contend with.

#37 Jason Redfield

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Posted 05 December 2010 - 09:46 PM

but that wouldnt prevent the zombies from getting to the civilians they were protecting. Also the battle takes place in the city. Not an open field, so there would be streets and alleys to contend with.


Wait, again, where does it say they're forced to protect the civilians? Besides, the civvies can just join them on the rooftop. They could watch the entrance, axing or bludgeoning anything that sticks their head through the door.

How many of the zombies would be in alleyways? Not many, considering they'd see their prey at the top of the building and mindlessly stand in the open, reaching out toward them. Besides, you can still see many alleyways and such from atop a building.

#38 Red Blue Blur

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Posted 05 December 2010 - 09:50 PM

Wait, again, where does it say they're forced to protect the civilians? Besides, the civvies can just join them on the rooftop. They could watch the entrance, axing or bludgeoning anything that sticks their head through the door.

How many of the zombies would be in alleyways? Not many, considering they'd see their pray at the top of the building and mindlessly stand in the open, reaching out toward them. Besides, you can still see many alleyways and such from atop a building.

It states they have to stay and fight in order to protect other survivors.

Now will the U.S. forces prevail in the battles, or will they be defeated in all three locations by the Zombies? Also, the Soliders can't leave and get more supplies as behind the troops are survivors who are going to be hidden somewhere safe, IF the forces take care of the zombies. So the soilders can't go and regroup or retreat, they have to stay and fight.



Since it doesnt state the survivors can help I would assume it is many women, children, and elderly. If there are that many soldiers, there would be ATLEAST and equal amount of survivors they have to keep safe. They cant all fit on the roofs.

#39 Jason Redfield

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Posted 05 December 2010 - 10:06 PM

It states they have to stay and fight in order to protect other survivors.




Since it doesnt state the survivors can help I would assume it is many women, children, and elderly. If there are that many soldiers, there would be ATLEAST and equal amount of survivors they have to keep safe. They cant all fit on the roofs.


The zombies will not be aware of the survivors. They'll just go after the nearest food, that being the soldiers. It just said they can't retreat, it doesn't say they can't use the surrounding to their advantage. They'll still be keeping the attention of the horde. And multiple buildings can be used -- in fact, this would make sense.

#40 Jaeger Panzer

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Posted 05 December 2010 - 10:07 PM

Jason: Witches WILL get involved if you startle them. Gunshots, and those from a larger group of people, could and possibly will startle those in a further distance and cause them to attack the source of noise, which would be the soldiers. However... Witches can and will kill zombies and whatnot if they were startled by them. Besides all that, not many are seen in the day time, only a few. A large number of them are seen at night time and they actually gather in areas that have the scent of sugar in the air, such as a sugar cane field or a sugar manufacturing plant. As such, I doubt the witches will be an issue pertaining to these circumstances.

Trioxin? Well, those not only infect humans but other animals. I've seen a dead cooked rat come alive and kill a hobo. So really, if Trioxin zombies are involved... expect more than just human zombies. Perhaps dogs, crows and whatnot. The same applies if any Resident Evil zombies are participating.

Anyways, I go with the military. B)




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